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Future of Trek Discussion of future Trek projects.

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Old October 11 2013, 06:41 PM   #76
BillJ
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Re: Making a Star Trek series that fits in with today's TV landscape

I always thought Fringe was constantly on the verge of being cancelled. Not sure I would use that as an example of ratings successful sci-fi?
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Old October 11 2013, 07:16 PM   #77
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Re: Making a Star Trek series that fits in with today's TV landscape

I thought Fringe only managed to eek out a truncated fifth season because Warner Bros. slashed the show's license fee to almost nothing? That's hardly an indicator of vast public support.

I'm also confused about all this talk of a new Trek series (or any dramatic series, for that matter) entering the market place through first-run syndication. The first-run syndication market is dead for anything other than cheap programming (i.e. talk and game shows) and has been that way for five years.

As for the talk of the Nielsen ratings system being "dead," it's still the primary way networks evaluate whether to renew or cancel programming. Saying that the ratings didn't matter for Battlestar Galactica just isn't true. The low ratings were the reason Moore and Eick decided to end the series with season four -- the ratings were just too low for SyFy to be able to guarantee a fifth year.
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Old October 11 2013, 07:51 PM   #78
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Re: Making a Star Trek series that fits in with today's TV landscape

Harvey wrote: View Post
As for the talk of the Nielsen ratings system being "dead," it's still the primary way networks evaluate whether to renew or cancel programming.
Surely so, in the near term. But that cannot last if they plan on surviving. That original series are now being produced entirely outside the Nielsen ratings system and succeeding (cf. House of Cards) is just a further indicator of the way things were already going.

(One among many: how many people do you know, for instance, who still watch network TV in a "live eyes" fashion at the pre-appointed time? I haven't done so in years -- barring the occasional insomnia-driven viewing of a Two and Half Men rerun -- and can't think of many people I know who do so either. I know more than one household where they don't even bother with network television anymore, they just watch shows on Netflix.)

Saying that the ratings didn't matter for Battlestar Galactica just isn't true.
It's also not what I said. I said it was proof that the traditional ratings system was dead: it was no longer accurately measuring the market for the show. It obviously "mattered" to whether the show was cancelled, and obviously the Nielsen ratings system will persist for some years yet -- a dead thing can take a while to stop moving. Nevertheless unless some radical change occurs in the trends, it's quite clear that the model the ratings system was based on is increasingly obsolete.
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Old October 11 2013, 09:27 PM   #79
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Re: Making a Star Trek series that fits in with today's TV landscape

BigJake wrote: View Post
Yes, some SciFi/Fantasy can get big ratings these days, but, it's typically down to Earth, no major Space opera plots or lots of aliens.
And yet ironically, it's cheaper than ever to do space opera plots and aliens.
You would think with CGI, it would be cheaper, but it actually isn't. The more photorealistic the CGI, the more expensive it is.
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Old October 11 2013, 09:53 PM   #80
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Re: Making a Star Trek series that fits in with today's TV landscape

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
You would think with CGI, it would be cheaper, but it actually isn't. The more photorealistic the CGI, the more expensive it is.
The introduction of CGI was what made -- for instance -- Babylon 5 and its regular space battles possible at all; that scale of space opera storytelling would have been prohibitively expensive for a production that size without use of the CGI technology they employed. That was managed with an Amiga and a primitive Video Toaster. I find it extremely difficult to believe that you couldn't improve on that standard today -- if maybe not to the level of "photorealism," let's not get nuts -- in the same price bracket.
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Old October 11 2013, 11:44 PM   #81
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Re: Making a Star Trek series that fits in with today's TV landscape

BigJake wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
You would think with CGI, it would be cheaper, but it actually isn't. The more photorealistic the CGI, the more expensive it is.
The introduction of CGI was what made -- for instance -- Babylon 5 and its regular space battles possible at all; that scale of space opera storytelling would have been prohibitively expensive for a production that size without use of the CGI technology they employed. That was managed with an Amiga and a primitive Video Toaster. I find it extremely difficult to believe that you couldn't improve on that standard today -- if maybe not to the level of "photorealism," let's not get nuts -- in the same price bracket.
It's just a case that the price for decent CGI has gone up. It's cheaper if it's more cartoony in nature.
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Old October 13 2013, 08:38 PM   #82
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Re: Making a Star Trek series that fits in with today's TV landscape

I have always hated the Neilson ratings system. Its like this, a selected small group of people have a box that monitors which shows they watch. Say that group represent a pack of M&Ms. Well the rest of us people represent the warehouse full of M&Ms. YOu open that pack of M&Ms and see that there are more yellow M&Ms in that pack than the other colors...DO you automatically assume that the warehouse has more yellow M&Ms than any other color. Its FLAWED!!! Also, what type of person lets corporation monitor what they watch? Anyways, this is why a crap show like Law & Order stay on the air for decades at a time.
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Old October 13 2013, 08:49 PM   #83
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Re: Making a Star Trek series that fits in with today's TV landscape

Mycroft Maxwell wrote: View Post
I have always hated the Neilson ratings system. Its like this, a selected small group of people have a box that monitors which shows they watch. Say that group represent a pack of M&Ms. Well the rest of us people represent the warehouse full of M&Ms. YOu open that pack of M&Ms and see that there are more yellow M&Ms in that pack than the other colors...DO you automatically assume that the warehouse has more yellow M&Ms than any other color. Its FLAWED!!! Also, what type of person lets corporation monitor what they watch? Anyways, this is why a crap show like Law & Order stay on the air for decades at a time.
Statistical sampling, if done right, is an incredibly accurate way to measure large numbers.

And why do I care if a corporation monitors what I watch? My credit card company knows what I buy. My cable provider knows what web sites I visit. My cell phone company knows who I call and text.

Companies wouldn't waste hundreds of millions of dollars every year on advertising if they didn't believe in the method of counting who watches what.
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Old October 13 2013, 10:00 PM   #84
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Re: Making a Star Trek series that fits in with today's TV landscape

I thought ENT's fourth season made a good template for how Trek could work in today's landscape. Multi-arcs while at the same time all of them sort of build up to other stories like how the Augment trilogy later played a part for the Ridgeless Klingon two parter. It's just too bad this had to happen right after ENT's ratings had sunk.
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Old October 13 2013, 10:12 PM   #85
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Re: Making a Star Trek series that fits in with today's TV landscape

Statistical sampling, if done right, is an incredibly accurate way to measure large numbers
Since When? I have always seen it work completely flawed.

My evidence- 90% of CLASSICS were CANCELED. 90% of successful shows were CRAP.
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Old October 13 2013, 10:32 PM   #86
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Re: Making a Star Trek series that fits in with today's TV landscape

Mycroft Maxwell wrote: View Post
Statistical sampling, if done right, is an incredibly accurate way to measure large numbers
Since When? I have always seen it work completely flawed.

My evidence- 90% of CLASSICS were CANCELED. 90% of successful shows were CRAP.
That's your opinion.

Once again, companies wouldn't spend millions of dollars on advertising if they thought the data was wrong.
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Old October 13 2013, 10:36 PM   #87
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Re: Making a Star Trek series that fits in with today's TV landscape

Mycroft Maxwell wrote: View Post
Statistical sampling, if done right, is an incredibly accurate way to measure large numbers
Since When?
Since always.
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Old October 13 2013, 11:46 PM   #88
Harvey
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Re: Making a Star Trek series that fits in with today's TV landscape

Mycroft Maxwell wrote: View Post
My evidence- 90% of CLASSICS were CANCELED. 90% of successful shows were CRAP.
Television is a business. Networks renew programming that (a) attracts an audience and (b) attracts advertisers. The business has little interest in what programs will be deemed "classics" in the forum of public opinion years later. Indeed, there's no way anyone could know that information without a time machine.
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Old October 15 2013, 08:43 PM   #89
Mycroft Maxwell
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Re: Making a Star Trek series that fits in with today's TV landscape

that's your opinion.

Once again, companies wouldn't spend millions of dollars on advertising if they thought the data was wrong.
I don't think corporations have the brains to question if the data is wrong. They Aren't smart enough to know that insurance rates sells insurance to me, not a Pig joke on an Airplane. Or a hot chick eating a hamburger doesn't make me want to eat a hamburger. It makes me want the hot chick.
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Old October 15 2013, 08:46 PM   #90
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Re: Making a Star Trek series that fits in with today's TV landscape

Mycroft Maxwell wrote: View Post
that's your opinion.

Once again, companies wouldn't spend millions of dollars on advertising if they thought the data was wrong.
I don't think corporations have the brains to question if the data is wrong. They Aren't smart enough to know that insurance rates sells insurance to me, not a Pig joke on an Airplane. Or a hot chick eating a hamburger doesn't make me want to eat a hamburger. It makes me want the hot chick.
I'm sorry but this really makes no sense.
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