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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old August 24 2013, 09:11 PM   #31
Timo
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Re: Resigning from Starfleet

One reason for thinking that Sisko's ride during his desert walk was a DS9 runabout is that runabouts supposedly were more or less tailor-made for DS9 style frontier applications, and indeed the very category of craft was suggested to be new in "Paradise". Sisko trying to get one of those at Earth might be like Benton Fraser trying to requisition a Bombardier snowmobile in Chicago, then.

Picard in "Timescape" did seem to have access to a nameless Danube class craft from some sort of a rent/ditch-a-runabout service, though...

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Old August 24 2013, 09:40 PM   #32
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Re: Resigning from Starfleet

Maybe there's a grace period when your resign: You resign, you're listed as "inactive" or "reservist subject to recall" for "X" weeks/months after which time if you don't return you're out completely.
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Old August 28 2013, 10:36 PM   #33
R. Star
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Re: Resigning from Starfleet

Melakon wrote: View Post
Makarov wrote:
I'd like to think Starfleet didn't make that guy resign just because of his half-romulan deal
The problem is Simon Tarses knew he was half-Romulan, rather than half-Vulcan. He lied on his application to Starfleet. That's why he would have been punished.
Yeah, I have to say Tarses wouldn't have been booted. One he didn't lie out of malice, but to save himself from persecution... justifiably when Satie comes after him the way she did. Picard took up for him that episode, and I can't believe he wouldn't pull the same strings that he did for Sito.

In the novels he later became a full doctor and worked on DS9. So he was never kicked out there.
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Old August 28 2013, 10:58 PM   #34
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Re: Resigning from Starfleet

Picard would have most likely put in a word for him, as he was a member of the crew. And if Starfleet had any brains, they would have just put Tarses on a probationary period, and then transferred him into Intelligence so they could place him as a spy on Romulus, continuing the deception.
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Old August 29 2013, 12:50 AM   #35
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Re: Resigning from Starfleet

Another interesting case study is Tuvok. He joins up as serves as an Ensign on the Excelsior in 2296, apparently doing very little to disguise his feelings of distaste for the Starfleet life. He then resigns, spends half a decade doing whatever (raising a family on Vulcan mostly), and then returns to the service in 2344, apparently with a greater understanding of what Starfleet can give him in his life.

I have often wondered if, for example, Tuvok would have returned as an Ensign? It seems like officers who resign and then come back seem to pick up pretty much where they left off career-wise.
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Old August 29 2013, 08:57 PM   #36
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Re: Resigning from Starfleet

R. Star wrote: View Post
In the novels he later became a full doctor and worked on DS9. So he was never kicked out there.
That's good to know. The episode kind of made me think his career was going to be over.

I think Wesley screws up a lot worse in that episode about the flying accident at starfleet academy.
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Old August 29 2013, 09:26 PM   #37
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Re: Resigning from Starfleet

Makarov wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post
In the novels he later became a full doctor and worked on DS9. So he was never kicked out there.
That's good to know. The episode kind of made me think his career was going to be over.

I think Wesley screws up a lot worse in that episode about the flying accident at starfleet academy.
That was one of my favorite Wesley episodes actually. The super smart kid saving the day or even messing up some technobabblewhatchamacallit to mess things up for the week but sorting it out gets old. This was a solid character piece, about character coming from adversity, fully fledged out with consequences.
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Old August 29 2013, 09:31 PM   #38
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Re: Resigning from Starfleet

It seemed to me the TNG writers were unable to write Wesley convincingly until after Wil quit the show. I thought "The Game" was some of his best work.
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Old August 30 2013, 01:38 AM   #39
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Re: Resigning from Starfleet

Something else to think about, Jadzia Dax was a host for two years when she came to DS9 as a Lt. So I guess she did not go through starfleet academy.
Kurzon was a negotiator for the Federation, apparently in Starfleet so I wonder how that works?
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Old August 30 2013, 04:26 AM   #40
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Re: Resigning from Starfleet

sariel2005 wrote: View Post
Something else to think about, Jadzia Dax was a host for two years when she came to DS9 as a Lt. So I guess she did not go through starfleet academy.
Kurzon was a negotiator for the Federation, apparently in Starfleet so I wonder how that works?
She states her age as 28 in Emissary. So if she got the symbiont at age 26, there's nothing to say she couldn't have gone to the Academy before she was joined. Plenty of time in the 18-26 period.
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Old August 30 2013, 04:59 AM   #41
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Re: Resigning from Starfleet

Her rank may be due to her experience. My Dad enlisted in the Army during WWII, and I think he was originally commissioned as a lieutenant due to having a couple of degrees. He was a chaplain, ending with an active rank as captain, and as a major while in the Reserves.
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Old August 30 2013, 03:35 PM   #42
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Re: Resigning from Starfleet

Yet we have not heard of anybody in Starfleet graduating at higher than Ensign rank. Supposedly, in Roddenberry's "astronaut" fleet, everybody is an academician and deserving of an insta-promotion, so nobody gets it.

Sure, we have seen people hold the rank of Lt(jg) at an early stage of their careers. Saavik, Bashir and the like could still have graduated as Ensigns and soon thereafter received promotions since, as pointed out, Starfleet appears to dish out promotions as an alternative to commendations that in today's militaries would result in medals and other decorations instead.

The new movies cast some doubt here, as it would appear McCoy is a LtCmdr only three years after boarding a shuttle to Starfleet for the very first time. In TOS, we could speculate that he had received orderly Starfleet training in addition to his medical studies without immediate compensation in rank; in nuTrek, it seems the medical studies come first, and three years (or much less - in terms of movie evidence, McCoy may well have graduated long before Kirk finished his third try at Kobayashi Maru) in Starfleet training after that is enough for an insta-promotion in today's style.

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Old August 30 2013, 07:11 PM   #43
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Re: Resigning from Starfleet

Since there's no money on earth, maybe Starfleet hands out promotions instead. It's like writers being given "producer" credit on television shows instead of more money.
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Old August 30 2013, 08:09 PM   #44
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Re: Resigning from Starfleet

Yet we have not heard of anybody in Starfleet graduating at higher than Ensign rank. Supposedly, in Roddenberry's "astronaut" fleet, everybody is an academician and deserving of an insta-promotion, so nobody gets it.

Sure, we have seen people hold the rank of Lt(jg) at an early stage of their careers. Saavik, Bashir and the like could still have graduated as Ensigns and soon thereafter received promotions since, as pointed out, Starfleet appears to dish out promotions as an alternative to commendations that in today's militaries would result in medals and other decorations instead.
Saavik held the rank of Lt while still a cadet. Kirk apparently did to and was an ensign while in the academy ( and possibly lt based on Mitchells comments) Bashir also indicates that he graduated and was sent straight to DS9 ( not unreasonable if he spent 8 years in training instead of 4 to be fair).

She states her age as 28 in Emissary. So if she got the symbiont at age 26, there's nothing to say she couldn't have gone to the Academy before she was joined. Plenty of time in the 18-26 period.
we know she spent three years at the trill academy thing and apparently did not leave much, and she was reaccepted. sounds like she was stuck on Trill. It seems given her past experience Starfleet academy was not needed.

he new movies cast some doubt here, as it would appear McCoy is a LtCmdr only three years after boarding a shuttle to Starfleet for the very first time. In TOS, we could speculate that he had received orderly Starfleet training in addition to his medical studies without immediate compensation in rank; in nuTrek, it seems the medical studies come first, and three years (or much less - in terms of movie evidence, McCoy may well have graduated long before Kirk finished his third try at Kobayashi Maru) in Starfleet training after that is enough for an insta-promotion in today's style.
I think the implication is that McCoy is already a doctor, so does not have to go through medical training just Starfleet training, given he wears a cadet uniform he is still a cadet though, still given cadets are apparently pursuing a degree of some sort, no reason why they would not get rank earlier ( which makes sense of Chekov at least) Its a combination of military academy and university.
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Old August 30 2013, 08:24 PM   #45
Timo
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Re: Resigning from Starfleet

]Saavik held the rank of Lt while still a cadet.
Nope, there's no mention of Saavik being a cadet anywhere. Cadets are people who haven't graduated, and Spock's little pupils featured plenty of people who didn't wear the insignia of graduated and commissioned officers.

Kirk apparently did to and was an ensign while in the academy ( and possibly lt based on Mitchells comments)
Kirk held rank at the Academy, but obviously only after graduation. We know he was an instructor there, teaching classes: that's rather more likely to happen after graduation than before it.

Bashir also indicates that he graduated and was sent straight to DS9
No, he says he wanted to get to DS9 straight away. We never learn if he was granted that wish.

we know she spent three years at the trill academy thing and apparently did not leave much, and she was reaccepted. sounds like she was stuck on Trill.
This would all happen after she had graduated, assuming she enrolled at 18.

I think the implication is that McCoy is already a doctor, so does not have to go through medical training just Starfleet training
Yup, that much is clearly implied. But the thing I'm concerned about here is that this is the only verified case where training at the Academy is immediately followed by promotion to LtCmdr rank. With all the other hero doctors, medical studies could have come first, Starfleet studies then, or vice versa (or these could have been one and the same thing) - but with Starfleet studies in every example culminating in graduation at Ensign rank.

given he wears a cadet uniform he is still a cadet though
We don't really know the meaning of those uniforms - instructors also wearing them is a distinct possibility (Spock's uniform is color-coded differently, but that's just incomplete statistics ). Uhura was a (senior) Lieutenant, too, despite wearing that uniform and helping out at Kirk's final try at the no-win scenario. Then again, she was also explicitly a Cadet, unlike Saavik. Or then we're just witnessing the effects of the confusing activation of the cadet force in that emergency: the students may have received instant degrees (even Kirk is listed as a junior Lieutenant on computer screens), and even Spock is confused between calling Uhura by her former status or her current rank.

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