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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old September 12 2013, 02:42 PM   #1
Cinema Geekly
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The Enemy of my Enemy [SPOILERS]

So on the standard Blu-Ray release they have a featurette on doing this summer blockbuster with two bad guys Khan and Admr. Marcus.

During the course of this short the writers openly admit that they consider Marcus to be the BIG baddie in the movie....... Nobody else could possibly see this movie and think that though right?

By the time Kirk and Khan got on board the Vengeance it seemed obvious that Marcus was the stupid bad guy, who thought he could control the monster, but he was wrong.

It was also obvious that Khan was far more dangerous and playing absolutely everyone. It seemed apparent to me that Khan's plan from day one was get his crew back, kill Marcus, take the ship and go off and do his thing.

Furthermore Khan easily dispatches of Marcus (the big bad guys never go down that easily) and Khan ends up getting the big baddie treatment at the end. Yet, right there in the special features they are talking about Marcus as the big baddie in this movie.

Am I missing something here?
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Old September 12 2013, 03:13 PM   #2
OpenMaw
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Re: The Enemy of my Enemy [SPOILERS]

If not for Marcus you would not have the movie. It's really that simple. If Marcus hadn't

A) woken Khan up.
B) Blackmailed Khan with the lives of his crew.
C) Sent the USS Enterprise on an mission into Klingon space.
D) Crippled the USS Enterprise over the moon

most of the people that died in the film would not have died. Khan is closer to a weapon, or a heavy/brute than he is the main villain. He is even somewhat sympathetic with regards to his people.


I honestly wish that Kirk hadn't betrayed Khan. It would have been so freaking cool if Khan had been something of an anti-hero by the end. Maybe a bit of redemption? Seriously, Trek writers... BE BRAVE, it's okay to cut loose!
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Old September 12 2013, 03:18 PM   #3
BillJ
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Re: The Enemy of my Enemy [SPOILERS]

OpenMaw wrote: View Post

I honestly wish that Kirk hadn't betrayed Khan. It would have been so freaking cool if Khan had been something of an anti-hero by the end. Maybe a bit of redemption? Seriously, Trek writers... BE BRAVE, it's okay to cut loose!
I don't think it mattered whether Kirk betrayed Khan or not. Khan had a score to settle with Marcus and he wanted the rest of his people woken up.
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Old September 12 2013, 03:31 PM   #4
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Re: The Enemy of my Enemy [SPOILERS]

BillJ wrote: View Post
I don't think it mattered whether Kirk betrayed Khan or not. Khan had a score to settle with Marcus and he wanted the rest of his people woken up.
I think Khan might have been more willing to take his people and be on his way had Kirk not had Scotty shoot him in the back.
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Old September 12 2013, 03:51 PM   #5
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Re: The Enemy of my Enemy [SPOILERS]

It was obvious that Peter Weller was the big baddie the moment I saw him in the trailer.
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Old September 12 2013, 04:36 PM   #6
Franklin
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Re: The Enemy of my Enemy [SPOILERS]

Cinema Geekly wrote: View Post
So on the standard Blu-Ray release they have a featurette on doing this summer blockbuster with two bad guys Khan and Admr. Marcus.

During the course of this short the writers openly admit that they consider Marcus to be the BIG baddie in the movie....... Nobody else could possibly see this movie and think that though right?

By the time Kirk and Khan got on board the Vengeance it seemed obvious that Marcus was the stupid bad guy, who thought he could control the monster, but he was wrong.

It was also obvious that Khan was far more dangerous and playing absolutely everyone. It seemed apparent to me that Khan's plan from day one was get his crew back, kill Marcus, take the ship and go off and do his thing.

Furthermore Khan easily dispatches of Marcus (the big bad guys never go down that easily) and Khan ends up getting the big baddie treatment at the end. Yet, right there in the special features they are talking about Marcus as the big baddie in this movie.

Am I missing something here?
Not really. You make very astute points.

I guess they could say Marcus was the worse baddie because there was at least some moral ambivalence in Khan's motives compared to what Marcus wanted to do. There's nothing sympathetic about the bellicose and corrupt Marcus, but you can feel for the situation Khan's in, and believe that if things were different, it could've ended more peacefully like in Space Seed. To that end, they could also could believe Marcus was the primary villain because he made it impossible for there to be a better ending.
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Old September 12 2013, 10:13 PM   #7
Cinema Geekly
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Re: The Enemy of my Enemy [SPOILERS]

Of course none of it would have happened if it weren't for Marcus but to me that still puts him in the place of of 'idiot bad guy' meddling with things he didn't quite understand.

Personally I felt like any humanity Khan was putting out there was just a ploy to get what he wanted. I mean I think his people do mean a great deal to him, but ultimately knowing what he intended to do with his people makes it clear (to me at least) that he had no interest in a peaceful solution.

And while Marcus may have been the catalyst of the events that took place they gave Khan the big bad guy character at least in how he was treated in the movie.
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Old September 12 2013, 10:17 PM   #8
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Re: The Enemy of my Enemy [SPOILERS]

Weller was a master scene chewer in this movie in the best tradition of Star Trek.
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Old September 13 2013, 12:03 AM   #9
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Re: The Enemy of my Enemy [SPOILERS]

OpenMaw wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
I don't think it mattered whether Kirk betrayed Khan or not. Khan had a score to settle with Marcus and he wanted the rest of his people woken up.
I think Khan might have been more willing to take his people and be on his way had Kirk not had Scotty shoot him in the back.
I'm so sure about that.

I got the feeling that even though it could be controlled by one person, I'm betting that Vengeance's optimum crew size was 73.
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