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The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old September 9 2013, 09:04 PM   #1
WesleysDisciple
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Ro Larrens Commision being restored for one mission makes no sense.

thought about it a bit.

I can understand getting her out of prison granting her a pardon

I dont think it woudl have been seen as neccessary to give her back a commision to put her back in uniform for one mission.

thoughts on WHY Starfleet did so


might have made more sense, for her to to persuaded to let picard petition for the restoration of her commision end of episode.
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Old September 10 2013, 01:11 AM   #2
jpv2000
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Re: Ro Larrens Commision being restored for one mission makes no sense

WesleysDisciple wrote: View Post
thought about it a bit.

I can understand getting her out of prison granting her a pardon

I dont think it woudl have been seen as neccessary to give her back a commision to put her back in uniform for one mission.

thoughts on WHY Starfleet did so


might have made more sense, for her to to persuaded to let picard petition for the restoration of her commision end of episode.
Never really thought about much, but now that I do I agree with you about letting Picard petition for her commission being restored at the end of the episode.
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Old September 10 2013, 03:31 AM   #3
Ar-Pharazon
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Re: Ro Larrens Commision being restored for one mission makes no sense

Well it was yet another example of a (semi) rogue Admiral playing god.
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Old September 10 2013, 08:48 PM   #4
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Re: Ro Larrens Commision being restored for one mission makes no sense

A shaky situation with Cardassian allies and rebels hitting Federation colonies? If anything, breaking Ro out was an understatement. The Cardassion-Federation war was a long, bloody engagement that neither side wanted escalated.

I always loved the way TNG set DS9 up so nicely.
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Old September 10 2013, 08:52 PM   #5
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Re: Ro Larrens Commision being restored for one mission makes no sense

The whole observer thing they did with Paris would seem to make more sense. But that would deny Riker the opportunity to act like a petty jerk over Ro's earring... then seat her in a meeting five minutes later with Troi and her catsuit and Worf and his Klingon bling bling sash.
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Old September 10 2013, 11:53 PM   #6
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Re: Ro Larrens Commision being restored for one mission makes no sense

R. Star wrote: View Post
The whole observer thing they did with Paris would seem to make more sense. But that would deny Riker the opportunity to act like a petty jerk over Ro's earring... then seat her in a meeting five minutes later with Troi and her catsuit and Worf and his Klingon bling bling sash.
Do we have to rehash AGAIN why Troi and Worf get a pass and Ro got the rules applied to her? Worf and Troi were GOOD officers who EARNED their uniform differences. We can even argue that the "catsuit" of Troi's was part of HER job as the ship's therapist to wear. (So her patients would feel they're talking to a friend/doctor and not a superior/fellow officer.) We don't know how Worf got the "privilege" to wear his sash but we can bet he didn't just show up one day wearing it and everyone waved their hands and didn't say anything.

Ro was anything BUT a model officer and had shown insubordination at any opportunity. That was the point of the episode, in fact, by the end of the episode she had proven herself and was granted that little bit of levity.

As for the OP question. Not sure, maybe insurance/paperwork reasons? They needed an "officer" on the mission and not a civilian hanging around helping out maybe it made the whole thing a bit more legit or kosher or something.
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Old September 11 2013, 01:35 AM   #7
R. Star
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Re: Ro Larrens Commision being restored for one mission makes no sense

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
Do we have to rehash AGAIN why Troi and Worf get a pass and Ro got the rules applied to her? Worf and Troi were GOOD officers who EARNED their uniform differences. We can even argue that the "catsuit" of Troi's was part of HER job as the ship's therapist to wear. (So her patients would feel they're talking to a friend/doctor and not a superior/fellow officer.) We don't know how Worf got the "privilege" to wear his sash but we can bet he didn't just show up one day wearing it and everyone waved their hands and didn't say anything.

Ro was anything BUT a model officer and had shown insubordination at any opportunity. That was the point of the episode, in fact, by the end of the episode she had proven herself and was granted that little bit of levity.
So basically you're arguing Starfleet has a personal favoritism clause on how much your superiors like you? There's no other reason for Worf's sash other than to wear the crest of his Klingon house after all. But somehow he earned it? How is that again? I could buy the catsuit in counseling sessions, but if Troi's going to be on the bridge or in a formal meeting, then a standard uniform seems in order. Even Jellico called her on that one. Frankly she looked better in it anyways.

Guess the favoritism clause fits in with Ro's demanding her earring back at the end of the episode. Not to mention Tuvok's excessive dressing down of the Maquis screwups in Voyager. Funny that facial tattoos are okay though. I still don't get why Ro's earring, which is as much a part of Bajoran heritage as a Klingon house crest being they're all equally personalized is different. Except if you're playing favorites, which doesn't seem to be a... well Trek reason to give. Beyond Riker just going out of his way to be a jerk and make a tense situation worse.
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Old September 11 2013, 01:40 AM   #8
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Re: Ro Larrens Commision being restored for one mission makes no sense

So basically you're arguing Starfleet has a personal favoritism clause on how much your superiors like you?
That's not a clause they need to have that's just the basics of human nature and life. If you behave and show yourself to be responsible rules get bent for you. If you're insubordinate and nearly got (or did get) some of you fellow officers killed, yeah, we're going to double down on the rules until you prove yourself.
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Old September 11 2013, 04:54 AM   #9
R. Star
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Re: Ro Larrens Commision being restored for one mission makes no sense

Forbid the concept of having the same rules for everyone, especially on a show that went out of it's way to show how evolved and fair humanity had become.
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Old September 11 2013, 05:10 AM   #10
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Re: Ro Larrens Commision being restored for one mission makes no sense

Ro is a junior officer. That alone means she gets extra rules, so to speak. It's all part of the chain of command - she isn't entitled to leeway unless she earns it. Which she obviously did not. She was a snarky, insubordinate jackass from the word go. The extra-stern attitude that Riker, etc. showed toward her, was justified. She needed to be taken down a peg.

And on top of all that, she got eight crewmembers KILLED on an away mission! Now tell me again, why the hell does she deserve even a scrap of 'leeway'?
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Old September 11 2013, 11:21 AM   #11
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Re: Ro Larrens Commision being restored for one mission makes no sense

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Ro is a junior officer. That alone means she gets extra rules, so to speak. It's all part of the chain of command - she isn't entitled to leeway unless she earns it. Which she obviously did not. She was a snarky, insubordinate jackass from the word go. The extra-stern attitude that Riker, etc. showed toward her, was justified. She needed to be taken down a peg.

And on top of all that, she got eight crewmembers KILLED on an away mission! Now tell me again, why the hell does she deserve even a scrap of 'leeway'?
Exactly. When someone is like that you don't give them inch lest they take their mile. You double-down on the rules and get them in line.
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Old September 11 2013, 05:02 PM   #12
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Re: Ro Larrens Commision being restored for one mission makes no sense

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Ro is a junior officer. That alone means she gets extra rules, so to speak. It's all part of the chain of command - she isn't entitled to leeway unless she earns it. Which she obviously did not. She was a snarky, insubordinate jackass from the word go. The extra-stern attitude that Riker, etc. showed toward her, was justified. She needed to be taken down a peg.

And on top of all that, she got eight crewmembers KILLED on an away mission! Now tell me again, why the hell does she deserve even a scrap of 'leeway'?
Exactly. When someone is like that you don't give them inch lest they take their mile. You double-down on the rules and get them in line.
So why did Nog get to wear his Ferengi headband thing as both a Cadet and Ensign then?
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Old September 11 2013, 08:49 PM   #13
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Re: Ro Larrens Commision being restored for one mission makes no sense

R. Star wrote: View Post
Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Ro is a junior officer. That alone means she gets extra rules, so to speak. It's all part of the chain of command - she isn't entitled to leeway unless she earns it. Which she obviously did not. She was a snarky, insubordinate jackass from the word go. The extra-stern attitude that Riker, etc. showed toward her, was justified. She needed to be taken down a peg.

And on top of all that, she got eight crewmembers KILLED on an away mission! Now tell me again, why the hell does she deserve even a scrap of 'leeway'?
Exactly. When someone is like that you don't give them inch lest they take their mile. You double-down on the rules and get them in line.
So why did Nog get to wear his Ferengi headband thing as both a Cadet and Ensign then?
Friends in high places maybe.
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Old September 12 2013, 01:42 AM   #14
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Re: Ro Larrens Commision being restored for one mission makes no sense

R. Star wrote: View Post
Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Ro is a junior officer. That alone means she gets extra rules, so to speak. It's all part of the chain of command - she isn't entitled to leeway unless she earns it. Which she obviously did not. She was a snarky, insubordinate jackass from the word go. The extra-stern attitude that Riker, etc. showed toward her, was justified. She needed to be taken down a peg.

And on top of all that, she got eight crewmembers KILLED on an away mission! Now tell me again, why the hell does she deserve even a scrap of 'leeway'?
Exactly. When someone is like that you don't give them inch lest they take their mile. You double-down on the rules and get them in line.
So why did Nog get to wear his Ferengi headband thing as both a Cadet and Ensign then?
That's production encroaching on the "reality" of the show, unfortuantely. The purpose of the Ferengi headband was to reduce the makeup/prosthetics they needed for the actor (I believe Quark was a very special case.)

If you want an in-show reason? Again, maybe Nog simply ASKED to wear his headband for whatever cultural significance it has to Ferengi. And you continue to miss the point.

Ro was a disgraced officer, had a history of insubordination and had responsibility in the deaths of fellow officers. That doesn't buy you much forgiveness and clearly shows you have no respect for rules, the chain of command, or orders.

Maybe when she started out she got away with wearing the earring like Nog and the head band and Worf and his baldric but when Ro became a trouble maker and GOT PEOPLE KILLED it's time to double down on the rules to whip her into line.

Maybe the uniform code is something Starfleet isn't too serious on by and large beyond some simple formalities (this must be the case give the uniform discrepancies we have) but in Ro's case? She was a problem. She needed to learn that the rules DID apply to her and she needed to get into shape, this means you have to be more strict with her when it comes to the rules.

An employee of mine is 20 minutes or so late for work pretty often but I let it slide because I get good work out of him and he makes his time up. Another employee I don't get much good work out of and he's not good at making up his time so when he's late I want to know why and have had to write him up for being late without calling first.

Am I applying the rules differently? Yeah. But one guy I get good work out of so I let the rules slide for him. I was just as hard on him early on when he was late, he started being on time, worked hard and the time started to slide again after a while but he continued to work hard and make up the time so he bought some forgiveness. If he's late I know I don't have to worry about him because he will show up and he'll work hard to catch-up and make the time up.

This other guy? He runs late, very late, and when he gets to work he still slacks around and doesn't catch up and he's not consistent about making up his time. He gets the whip, which has helped some in getting him in line a bit with his time. He knows he'll be in trouble if he continues to be late.

Rules are going to be applied differently on your history and behavior. One guy I can trust. One guy I can't.

Worf is a disciplined, good, officer. He gets some lax rules on the uniform code.

Ro is insubordinate and is responsible for the deaths of fellow officers. So, yeah, she gets some rules enforced on her.

And, again, by the end of the episode she had proven herself more trustworthy than on first glance and that she was capable. As a result Picard helps her to retain her commission, her service on the Federation flagship AND allows the wearing of the Bajoran earring. That was the arc for her in the episode. That she goes from an undisciplined, not-trusted, officer to a... well still mostly undisciplined but trusted and capable officer. She buys her leeway, gets to wear the earring.
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Old September 12 2013, 07:39 AM   #15
R. Star
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Re: Ro Larrens Commision being restored for one mission makes no sense

I'm missing the point? What's the point of even having a rule if you're just going to selectively enforce it? Either it's there or it isn't. You can look at most corruption in any system be it political, military, workplace, social or whatever and it stems from the people in authority just doing whatever they want. It takes a jerk of the first order to say I like you more, don't worry about the rules, I don't like you so I'm going to ram them down you're throat. This is supposed to be a setting where humanity is evolved and enlightened. A system like that is just asking for corruption if that's what you're saying it is... which explains so many of Starfleet's admiral's... like the one in this episode.
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