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Old August 21 2013, 01:16 PM   #16
Xand
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Re: Star Trek etymology

Most words have etymology and names also.

Some examples from other:
Auriel Lat. aurum -gold + Heb. el -god
Zanarkand Gr. za -very + narke -numb + Lat. andus, anda -ing suffix
Balamb garden Lat. ballare -to dance + ambi -around
Gargamel gargantuan -gigantic, enormous + Lat. malus, mala -evil or Gr. melas -black
Morag Thong Lat. mors, mortis -death + agere, actus -to do, to make

Many english words have etymology for example:
epidemic Gr. επι (epi) -upon, on + δημος (dēmos) -people
energy Gr. εν (en) -in + εργον (ergon) -work
octopus Gr. οκτω (oktō) -eight + πους (pous) -foot
transit L. trans -across + ire, itus -to go
previous L. prae -before + via -the way
exit L. ex -out, from + ire, itus -to go
ancient F. ancien, LL. antianus from L. ante -before
effect L. ex -out, from + facere -to make
summit L. summus -highest + ire, itus -to go
atmosphere Gr. ατμος (atmos) -steam + σφαιρα (sphaira) -ball, sphere
symbol Gr. συν (syn) -with, together + βαλλω (ballō) -to throw, put
alarm It. all' arme -to arms
suburb L. sub -below + urbs, urbis -city
symmetry Gr. συν (syn) -with, together + μετρον (metron) -measure
core L. cor -heart
artifact L. ars, artis -art + facere, factus -to make
prophecy Gr. προ (pro) -before + φημι (phēmi) -to tell
add L. addere -add to, join (ad -to + do, dare -to give)
object L. ob -toward, against + jacere, jactus -to throw
hippopotamus Gr. 'ιππος (hippos) -horse + ποταμος (potamos) -river
longevity L. longus -long + aevum -age
primeval L. primus -first + aevum -age + al -related to
agriculture L. ager -field + colere -to cultivate, to dwell + ur -related to
aqueduct L. aqua -water + ducere, ductus -to lead
rebel L. re -back, again + bellum -war
embrace, bracelet Gr. bracchium -arm
capital L. caput, capitis -head + al -related to
accord, discord, concord, courage L. ad -to, toward + dis -apart + con -together, with + cor, cordis -heart + agere, actus -to do, to drive
unicorn, uniform, unify, universe L. unus -one + cornu -horn + forma -shape + facere, factus -to do + vertere, versum -to turn
secure L. se, sed -apart, without + cura -care
trident L. tri- three + dens, dentis -tooth,
dignity L. dignus -worthy
final, infinity, infinitive L. finis -end, limit + al, iv -of, related to confirm,
firmament L. con -together, with + firm + mens, mentis -mind (used in nouns)
foliage, portfolio L. folium -leaf + agere, actus -to do + portare -to carry
deform, formal, formula, information L. de -from, down + forma -shape + al -related to + ul -diminutive
effort, fortify L. ex -out + fortis -strength + facere, factus -to do affront,
confront, frontal L. ad -to, toward + frons, frontis -forehead + al -related to
profound L. pro -before, forward + fundus -bottom
granary L. granum -grain + arium -place
gravity L. gravis -heavy + ire, itus -to go
congregation L. con -together, with + grex, gregis -flock, herd
humility L. humus -ground + il -related to
peninsula L. paene -almost + insula -island (in + salum -open sea)
island is -water + land,
window wind + ow -eye
library L. liber -book + arium -place
manual L. manus -hand + al -related to
immediate L. medius -middle
naval L. navis -ship + al -related to
annihilate L. ad -to, toward + nihil -nothing
equinox L. aequus -equal + nox, noctis -night
translucent L. trans -across + lucere -to shine + ens, entis -someone or something that is related
copious, copy L. co -together, with + ops, opis -wealth, riches
orbit L. orbis -orb, world + ire, itus -to go
oval L. ovum -egg + al -related to
partial, particle L. pars, partis -piece + al -related to + iculum -diminutive
pacific L. pax. pacis -peace + facere, factus -to do, to make
bicycle Gr. bi, bis -two + cyclos -circle
expedition, pedal L. ex -out + pes, pedis -foot + al -related to
pinnacle L. pinna -feather portal L. porta -gate + al -related to
appreciate, precious L. ad -to, toward + pretium -price
reality L. res, rei -thing + al -related to
derive, rival L. de -from, down + rivus -brook + al -related to
seminary L. semen -seed
senator, senility, senior L. senex -old man + il -related to
temperature L. tempus, temporis -time + ur -related to
umbrella L. umbra -shadow + ella -diminutive
ventilator L. ventus -wind + il -related to
fissure L. findere, fissum -to cleave, to split + ur -related to
ambiguous, exact, navigate, purge, redact L. ambi -around + ex -out + agere, actus -to do, to make + navis -ship + purus -pure + re, red -back, again
coalition L. co -together, with + alere -to nourish
adapt, inept L. ad -to, toward + aptare -to fit
occident L. ob -toward, against + cadere -to fall + -ens, -entis -related to
orient L. oriri -to rise + -ent -related to
current L. currere -to run + -ent -related to
edict, prediction L. e, ex -out + dicere, dictus -to say + prae -before
fossil L. fodere, fossus -to dig + il -related to
Avatar ava -down + tr, tara -to cross (Sanskrit)
delete Lat. de -off, away, down + linere, litus -to smear, wipe
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Old August 21 2013, 01:30 PM   #17
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Re: Star Trek etymology

^"Etymology" does not just mean "basis in Greek or Latin." There are many other languages that words can be derived from. And etymology doesn't just mean making up imagined Latin or Greek derivations based on vague phonetic resemblances. It means doing actual research into the history of words. If you're so fixated on word derivations, you should know that "-ology" means science or study. Science means testing your ideas, not just making stuff up and claiming it's fact.
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Old August 21 2013, 01:42 PM   #18
iguana_tonante
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Re: Star Trek etymology

Xand wrote: View Post
Most words have etymology and names also.
No shit. And I bet most people have biological parents, too!

Xand wrote: View Post
Many english words have etymology for example:
You mean they were not granted fully finished from Thoth?
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Old August 22 2013, 09:51 AM   #19
Xand
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Re: Star Trek etymology

Ezri Dax Heb. azar -to help + Lat. dare, datus -to give + -ax -having ability, -ing suffix (she had transplant)
Darth Vader dark + Lat. vadere, vasus -to walk.Dark walker as opposite of Luke skywalker.
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Old August 22 2013, 06:52 PM   #20
Melakon
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Re: Star Trek etymology

Etymologists must be lots of fun at parties.

Xand wrote:
Darth Vader dark + Lat. vadere, vasus -to walk.Dark walker as opposite of Luke skywalker
Apparently, all those interpretations of "Darth Vader" meaning "Dark Father" over the last 30 years were wrong.
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Last edited by Melakon; August 23 2013 at 12:41 AM. Reason: belated discovery of missing quote bracket
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Old August 22 2013, 11:46 PM   #21
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Re: Star Trek etymology

Given he's not even reading our replies, I guess he's just bullshitting us for shit and giggles.
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Old August 23 2013, 08:26 AM   #22
Xand
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Re: Star Trek etymology

Since Star Trek authors are not revealing from where their names come from all we can do is guess and that is folk etymology.I must admit that bath leth and vor'cha comes from Klingon language but many others looks related for example Cardassia -heart made of copper because are cruel and Hirogen hero + Lat. genereare -to born.
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Old August 23 2013, 02:03 PM   #23
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Re: Star Trek etymology

No.
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Old August 23 2013, 03:33 PM   #24
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Re: Star Trek etymology

Most writers coming up with alien names aren't deriving them from Latin or Greek. Some are -- there are obvious cases like "Romulan" -- but usually they're just making up alien-sounding words, maybe going for a certain subjective flavor, rather than worrying about formal etymology.

We actually know the origin of the name "Cardassian" from its creator:

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Cardassian#Name
Jeri Taylor – an executive producer for TNG and the writer of "The Wounded", the first episode to feature the Cardassians – invented the group name for the species. "I came up with 'Circassians' which I thought had a vaguely alien sound, though something in the back of my mind thought it came too easily," Taylor explained. "And someone (probably Joe Menosky) pointed out that the Circassians were a real people on Earth, in antiquity. So I just played around with the sounds and 'Cardassian' kind of fell into place."
This is why research is better than guesswork.
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Old August 24 2013, 06:24 AM   #25
Xand
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Re: Star Trek etymology

Darth Sidious dark + Lat. sedere, sessus -to sit
Emperor Palpatine pale + Lat. pati, passus -to suffer + in -of, related to (he had pale face)
Jedi jede -any, each (German)

Last edited by Xand; August 24 2013 at 09:33 AM.
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Old August 24 2013, 01:59 PM   #26
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Re: Star Trek etymology

^Oh, come on. "Sidious" is obviously short for "insidious," just as "Vader" can be taken as short for "invader" (although Lucas has claimed he coined "Darth Vader" as a blend of "dark father" and "deathwater"). Futurama even did a joke about this once. Really, with names like "Maul" and "Tyrannus" and "Plagueis," Sith name etymologies are quite easy to figure out. You're overthinking it.

The name "Palpatine" is probably a variant on the Palatine Hill in Rome, traditionally seen as the origin of Rome and its empire, and the site where many Roman emperors lived. Its name is derived from the word for "palace." So here's a case where an obvious Latin derivation for the name does present itself, and somehow you still missed it. (The name Palpatine first appeared in the original Star Wars novelization in 1977, years before the character appeared onscreen and was given a pale face.)

And Jedi is a Hebrew name meaning "beloved/protected by God," although it's more likely that Lucas just based the word on "jed" and "jeddak" from Edgar Rice Burroughs's Barsoom novels, one of his major inspirations for Star Wars.
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Old August 24 2013, 02:50 PM   #27
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Re: Star Trek etymology

I also can't believe the writers put that much clever thought in to every one of those. A few of them, sure, but ALL of those?
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Old August 25 2013, 07:27 AM   #28
Xand
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Re: Star Trek etymology

Insidious is from in + Lat. sedere, sessus -to sit as well as president pre -before, dissident dis -apart, reside re -back, again, subside sub -under.
Lat. vadere, vasus -to walk appears in words invade, invasion, evade, evasion e, ex -out, pervasive, per -through.
And Palpatin could mean pale + psychopath from Gr. psyche -soul + pathos -suffering

You could look at Etymonline English etymological dictionary to see how etymology is created and also at Wiktionary.
http://www.etymonline.com/
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:Main_Page
And look at freelang and Whitakers words free latin dictionary, it can recognise many grammar forms and guess words, most etymology is based on latin.
http://archives.nd.edu/whitaker/words.htm
Perhaps you as a writer will found inspiration in namemaking at my games etymologies page.
http://www.crestfallen.us/forums/vie...=4011&start=15

Last edited by Xand; August 25 2013 at 10:53 AM.
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Old August 25 2013, 02:59 PM   #29
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Re: Star Trek etymology

Xand wrote: View Post
And Palpatin could mean pale + psychopath from Gr. psyche -soul + pathos -suffering
I repeat: The name "Palpatine" was coined in the 1977 Star Wars novelization, years before any thought was given to what the character would look like. Indeed, I think it wasn't until 1991 that the "Emperor Palpatine" from that novelization was explicitly established as the same Emperor who appeared in The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi, rather than a predecessor. Therefore you're wrong to assume it has anything to do with him being "pale."


You could look at Etymonline English etymological dictionary to see how etymology is created and also at Wiktionary.
Ahh, now we see the fundamental flaw in your thinking. Etymology is not "created." It's not something you just make up and impose on a word as you keep attempting to do. It's the process of attempting to discover the actual evolutionary history of a word by researching past sources. Sure, using your imagination to extrapolate possible histories for a word based on its structure is a useful first step, but it's only the beginning. Once you formulate a hypothesis, you have to test it against the evidence, and you have to be willing to throw it out if the evidence doesn't support it.


And look at freelang and Whitakers words free latin dictionary, it can recognise many grammar forms and guess words, most etymology is based on latin.
"Most etymology?" That may be true of English (though estimates range from 60-80% Latin or Greek origin), but English is hardly the only language on Earth. Obviously Chinese or Xhosa or Nahuatl isn't descended from Latin.

And we are, of course, talking about imaginary alien languages, so all bets are off. Sure, there are some writers who base their alien names on Greek or Latin roots, but there are others who do nothing of the sort. Personally, I think it's a silly practice; of course aliens wouldn't have Latin or Greek in their own linguistic history so there's no sane reason why their own names for themselves would be based in any Earth language. So when I make up alien names, they have no Earthly basis or meaning and are just meant to be exotic sounds. Sometimes I come up with alien names that are based on anagrams or puns -- for instance, I once named an alien race the Redheri because I wanted them to be red herrings in a story. And I'm sure there are plenty of other SF writers who think the same way. So it's just plain silly to assume that the principles of etymology that apply to the derivation of real, English words would be applicable to imaginary alien names and words invented by science fiction writers.
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Old August 25 2013, 07:42 PM   #30
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Re: Star Trek etymology

My method for coming up with alien names was either take a common word and changing vowels and consonants, or finding an unusual name in the phone book. Other times, I just combined nonsense syllables that sounded good to the ear.
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