RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 138,266
Posts: 5,349,507
Members: 24,614
Currently online: 531
Newest member: robyn

TrekToday headlines

Retro Review: His Way
By: Michelle on Jul 26

MicroWarriors Releases Next Week
By: T'Bonz on Jul 25

Ships Of The Line Design Contest
By: T'Bonz on Jul 25

Next Weekend: Shore Leave 36!
By: T'Bonz on Jul 25

True Trek History To Be Penned
By: T'Bonz on Jul 25

Insight Editions Announces Three Trek Books For 2015
By: T'Bonz on Jul 24

To Be Takei Review by Spencer Blohm
By: T'Bonz on Jul 24

Mulgrew: Playing Red
By: T'Bonz on Jul 24

Hallmark 2015 Trek Ornaments
By: T'Bonz on Jul 24

Funko Mini Spock
By: T'Bonz on Jul 23


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Literature

Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

View Poll Results: Rate Revelation and Dust.
Outstanding 29 25.89%
Above Average 45 40.18%
Average 25 22.32%
Below Average 7 6.25%
Poor 6 5.36%
Voters: 112. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 14 2013, 02:14 AM   #301
JD
Admiral
 
JD's Avatar
 
Location: Arizona, USA
Re: TF: Revelation and Dust by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I think the issue there is that pretty the majority of people seem to dislike Martin's writing, while a lot of people around here do really like DRGIII's writing. I think it's just a case of people getting trying to defend something they like.
__________________
Over the course of many encounters and many years, I have successfully developed a standard operating procedure for dealing with big, nasty monsters. Run away. Me and Monty Python.
Harry Dresden - Blood Rites (The Dresden Files #6)
JD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 14 2013, 09:06 AM   #302
Shane Houston
Commander
 
Shane Houston's Avatar
 
Location: Louisville Kentucky - Halliwell
View Shane Houston's Twitter Profile
Re: TF: Revelation and Dust by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

JWolf wrote: View Post
j3067 wrote: View Post
Unless the book is by Michael A Martin; it is ok to think his books are poorly written here. You are only allowed to say that DRG3 books did not work for you. Apparently it is not possible to disagree about the quality of an author's work.
It's OK to say you didn't like Revelation and Dust or it didn't wok for you or you thought it was poor. But it's NOT OK to say it's garbage. That's an insult and defamatory. It's all in how you word your dislike that matters.

Look, enough of the people who said they disliked Rough Beasts of Empire did so in such a rude, overbearing and nasty way that they drive DRGIII from this forum.
OMG. First you're the spoiler police and now you're trying to control other people's ideas and expressions. What's next? A separate thread where you wine and cry about how people talk and the words they use?

If I choose to describe a book as garbage, or rubbish or any other label, and it's my honest opinion, then who the hell are you to come in and criticize how I say it?

There are some people throughout the world who don't understand how they suck all the fun and energy out of a place. As for mentioning DRGIII leaving TrekBBS, yes, he did leave. But I'm sorry, that was a choice he made and from my perspective looks a tad childish in my opinion. What? So everyone of his books MUST get good reviews in order for him to be a part of this community? Are readers not allowed to express themselves if they don't like a book of his? Look, he's not God nor is he the best Trek author who's a part of this community. The best Trek writers are as much a part of this TrekBBS family as you and I are, and have learned to have a thicker skin than that. They seem, of course within reason, to listen and share and strive to understand where we come from, and when we're wrong, let us know. They're Star Trek fans. They get it.

They don't want to grab their toys and run fans don't like something they wrote. I love them for that and grateful they're here. If I had a choice between meeting an actor from one of the Trek series or one of these writers, I'd chose the writers. They help keep 24th century Trek alive. Let me be clear, I am a DRGIII fan too. SATR and RTD are two exceptional books. And I wasn't one all that upset about Rough Beasts, but that being said if I read something and I don't like, I reserve the right to review it and be honest about it here in this forum. And if I want to use the term garbage to describe it, then that's my choice.

It's not for you to dictate how we post here.
__________________
"I excel at following the important ones." Admiral Kathryn Janeway answering Counselor Cambridge's questioning her whether she excels at following orders. Star Trek Voyager: Protectors by New York Times Bestselling authorKirsten "Mother F**ng" Beyer
Shane Houston is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 14 2013, 09:59 AM   #303
Defcon
Rear Admiral
 
Defcon's Avatar
 
Location: Germany
View Defcon's Twitter Profile
Re: TF: Revelation and Dust by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

JWolf wrote: View Post
Look, enough of the people who said they disliked Rough Beasts of Empire did so in such a rude, overbearing and nasty way that they drive DRGIII from this forum.
Mmmh, either you're deliberately lying, or you're saying DRG III is a liar:

David R. George III wrote: View Post
My reasons have absolutely nothing to do with people liking or disliking, loving or hating, my work.
Way to go when you're trying to come off as the moral guiding light of the TrekLit forum.
Defcon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 14 2013, 10:17 AM   #304
Dimesdan
Rear Admiral
 
Dimesdan's Avatar
 
Location: The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to Dimesdan
Re: TF: Revelation and Dust by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Defcon wrote: View Post
JWolf wrote: View Post
Look, enough of the people who said they disliked Rough Beasts of Empire did so in such a rude, overbearing and nasty way that they drive DRGIII from this forum.
Mmmh, either you're deliberately lying, or you're saying DRG III is a liar:

David R. George III wrote: View Post
My reasons have absolutely nothing to do with people liking or disliking, loving or hating, my work.
Way to go when you're trying to come off as the moral guiding light of the TrekLit forum.
I still remember when JWolf took issue to my stylish masturbator avatar, he didn't take kindly to being told repeatedly it was fine and that his avatar just showed him up of being a massive hypocrite.
__________________
People in third world countries are so lucky they don't have to deal with these problems. - TheGodBen

I'm on twitter now. @DimesDaniel
Dimesdan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 14 2013, 12:43 PM   #305
DS9forever
Fleet Captain
 
Re: TF: Revelation and Dust by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I just noticed a reference to a one of DS9's new counselors, who might be a descendant of an Enterprise NX-01 crewmember.
DS9forever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 14 2013, 03:17 PM   #306
TJ Sinclair
Captain
 
TJ Sinclair's Avatar
 
Location: There and back again...
Re: TF: Revelation and Dust by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Jarvisimo wrote: View Post
And as for Bashir - you mean you didn't enjoy ZSG, or you haven't enjoyed his material since ZSG?
Both. I quite literally loathed the character in Zero Sum Game, and my opinion of him since has not improved. The last time I liked Bashir in a book was Abyss. In the novels since, he's increasingly portrayed as far more maudlin, whiny, and obnoxiously self-centered than he ever was in the series, and that's saying something. I cannot find a single likeable or redeeming aspect to his character now. I keep hoping he dies a horrendously ignominious death at some point, but I'm sure no one would ever sign off on the novels killing him.

I think Book 3 of The Fall is well worth looking forward to. Maybe Shar too? I really didn't enoy what Paths of Disharmony suggested about Andorian society - it presented, for me, too simplistic, too binary, a society. And the seperation happened too quick.
I really like Shar, and while the Andorian storyline has had its ups and downs for me, I love the species, so I'm happy when they show up in any meaningful way.
__________________
"Social harmony is not a good goal. There's plenty of social harmony in a prison camp. The individual is the smallest and most oppressed minority..." -- Diane Carey, April 2001
TJ Sinclair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 14 2013, 03:21 PM   #307
Thrawn
Rear Admiral
 
Thrawn's Avatar
 
Location: Washington, DC
Re: TF: Revelation and Dust by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Defcon wrote: View Post
JWolf wrote: View Post
Look, enough of the people who said they disliked Rough Beasts of Empire did so in such a rude, overbearing and nasty way that they drive DRGIII from this forum.
Mmmh, either you're deliberately lying, or you're saying DRG III is a liar:

David R. George III wrote: View Post
My reasons have absolutely nothing to do with people liking or disliking, loving or hating, my work.
Way to go when you're trying to come off as the moral guiding light of the TrekLit forum.
Right.

David R. George III wrote: View Post
What this is about is what seems to me to be the increasing negativity and combativeness in the Trek Literature threads.
So: confrontationally calling someone a liar, then?

Not saying JWolf's posts aren't aggressive too, but if you're using DRG3's exit to justify your tirade against JWolf, you should maybe be sure your tirade isn't also exactly what he was talking about?

I really like your posts in general, Defcon, but I have to call you on this. Most people on both sides aren't doing a very good job of lowering the "negativity and combativeness" in here.
__________________
The Almighty Star Trek Lit-Verse Reading Order Flowchart - be confused no longer about what to read next, or what to read first.
Thrawn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 14 2013, 03:47 PM   #308
TJ Sinclair
Captain
 
TJ Sinclair's Avatar
 
Location: There and back again...
Re: TF: Revelation and Dust by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Thrawn wrote: View Post
Most people on both sides aren't doing a very good job of lowering the "negativity and combativeness" in here.
As someone coming back to the forum from a rather long absence, the level of vitriolic squabbling here seems to have increased a thousand-fold over the last couple of years.
__________________
"Social harmony is not a good goal. There's plenty of social harmony in a prison camp. The individual is the smallest and most oppressed minority..." -- Diane Carey, April 2001
TJ Sinclair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 14 2013, 03:59 PM   #309
Defcon
Rear Admiral
 
Defcon's Avatar
 
Location: Germany
View Defcon's Twitter Profile
Re: TF: Revelation and Dust by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Thrawn wrote: View Post

So: confrontationally calling someone a liar, then?

Not saying JWolf's posts aren't aggressive too, but if you're using DRG3's exit to justify your tirade against JWolf, you should maybe be sure your tirade isn't also exactly what he was talking about?

I really like your posts in general, Defcon, but I have to call you on this. Most people on both sides aren't doing a very good job of lowering the "negativity and combativeness" in here.
Don't see how this:

JWolf wrote: View Post
Look, enough of the people who said they disliked Rough Beasts of Empire did so in such a rude, overbearing and nasty way that they drive DRGIII from this forum.
equals this:

David R. George III wrote: View Post
What this is about is what seems to me to be the increasing negativity and combativeness in the Trek Literature threads.
The first one implies that DRG III was attacked directly and that was why he left, the second one only says that DRG III didn't enjoy the overall "feel" of the board at the time.

But yes, quite frankly I'm tired of JWolf's posts and attitude, and have decided to not hold back anymore whenever he is spewing his tirades.
Defcon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 14 2013, 04:41 PM   #310
JeBuS
Lieutenant Commander
 
Re: TF: Revelation and Dust by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I get that the thread has sort of (d)evolved into this current discussion, but I don't think this is the place for it.
JeBuS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 14 2013, 06:48 PM   #311
JoeZhang
Vice Admiral
 
JoeZhang's Avatar
 
Re: TF: Revelation and Dust by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Yeah - let's get back to talking about how large elements of this book blow.
JoeZhang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 14 2013, 07:00 PM   #312
Reanok
Commodore
 
Re: TF: Revelation and Dust by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Please lets get back to discussing the book instead of g:thum bdown:getting get off topic and fighting it gets tiresome.
Reanok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 14 2013, 07:03 PM   #313
Jarvisimo
Commander
 
Jarvisimo's Avatar
 
Re: TF: Revelation and Dust by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

TJ Sinclair wrote: View Post
Jarvisimo wrote: View Post
And as for Bashir - you mean you didn't enjoy ZSG, or you haven't enjoyed his material since ZSG?
Both. I quite literally loathed the character in Zero Sum Game, and my opinion of him since has not improved. The last time I liked Bashir in a book was Abyss. In the novels since, he's increasingly portrayed as far more maudlin, whiny, and obnoxiously self-centered than he ever was in the series, and that's saying something. I cannot find a single likeable or redeeming aspect to his character now. I keep hoping he dies a horrendously ignominious death at some point, but I'm sure no one would ever sign off on the novels killing him.
I see. I wasn't so down on ZSG - I felt this was very much the Bashir of AR-558, the depressed and sometimes cynical veteran, and also the lone genetically engineered man bereft of companionship. But taken to the extremes of how the series's end and the relaunch's direction had left him, as of The Soul Key and Destiny - a Bashir without any close friends (long without Miles or Garak, his two closest friends, and Ezri/Dax too). * ZSG's depressed Bashir made sense, to me, and more so, it made sense for him to jump at Sarina, a woman (he/the script) slightly objectified in Chrysalis. This is Bashir after all! **

* I liked how DRG left ambiguous through Ezri's POV whether he thought it a misguided romance, based on Bashir's old Jadzia crush. That felt psychologically real.

** I'm not sure I fully accept the continuity of Sarina'a characterisation to date since ZSG. She doesn't seem as clinical and cold, nor as physically and mentally superior, as she was in that book. Of course neither is Bashir. But Bashir's psychological changes make sense if one sees him as - somewhat - dependent on those closest to him (Dax, Miles, Garak - even Kira and Odo - now Sarina) with these people removing his (understandable, given his differences) sense of crushing isolation. He is deeply in love, and is grounded on her. Gone is, therefore, his cold and isolating depression. His newfound joy robbed him of the loss of his prior depression. And Miles is back too (although these two have not shared the same relationship of the past...). In terms of his development, I do hope L'Haan, and the other Mack S31 agents, come back with a vengeance at some point too (hopefully in Fall Book 3).

TJ Sinclair wrote: View Post
I think Book 3 of The Fall is well worth looking forward to. Maybe Shar too? I really didn't enoy what Paths of Disharmony suggested about Andorian society - it presented, for me, too simplistic, too binary, a society. And the seperation happened too quick.
I really like Shar, and while the Andorian storyline has had its ups and downs for me, I love the species, so I'm happy when they show up in any meaningful way.
Yeah me too. As a historian I would be loath to say they are the same, but the recent burst of Andorians as a core part of the Federation in Christopher's Choice of Futures and in Vanguard makes me just wish to see more of them, in all their complexities. The easy seperation of a federal/nation state from a bigger nation just doesn't happen overnight, or even in 60 days. For example, if Scotland does go independent, it wil take at least two years from referendum to independence. Seperation is so much more complex than pure politics. It is cultural, familial, social, demographic. I loved the image of the multicultural Deneva in Mack's Destiny - and I kind of think that most Federation 'colony' worlds would be like this. What happened to all those Andorians on other worlds? IF the Federation is 900 trillion people (or whatever the correct figure was in the new book), despite their shrinking population, that must have been a lot of Andorians in the Federation. Vanguard especially suggested how widespread they were in the 23rd century, and there were a good number used throughout the 24th century treklit. So there seems to have been a lot. Or maybe not (because of course their population is a dramatic concern). I don't know. I kind of hope for more problematisation of the seperation - beyond just Typhon Pact sympathies and loyalties issues (I must admit to not having read the Titan books with the Andorian issues).

As for Shar. He was interesting, and - despite it being too cliche for them to reunite - it would be nice for Prynn and him to share a conversation. And - to go on an important tangent - for Prynn to perhaps have facetime too, independent of the men in her life. Because it would be great for her to have some characterisation too, now her father (and the Andorian) is (are) not her main dramatic conceit(s).
__________________
In medio virtus

Last edited by Jarvisimo; September 14 2013 at 07:13 PM.
Jarvisimo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 14 2013, 11:01 PM   #314
JWolf
Commodore
 
JWolf's Avatar
 
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Re: TF: Revelation and Dust by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

This is a really hard book to rate. The reason that it is so hard is because the other books in the Fall mini-series could take this book to a new level or could drop it in the toilet. It isn't 100% complete on it's own. That's why it really needs to have the other book(s) out to see where things go and what happens. This is a good book. But if the other books don't support it well enough, then it gets dragged down. I'm hoping the other books cause this one to rise up.
__________________
Jon
JWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 15 2013, 08:19 AM   #315
Dimesdan
Rear Admiral
 
Dimesdan's Avatar
 
Location: The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to Dimesdan
Re: TF: Revelation and Dust by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

JWolf wrote: View Post
This is a really hard book to rate. The reason that it is so hard is because the other books in the Fall mini-series could take this book to a new level or could drop it in the toilet. It isn't 100% complete on it's own. That's why it really needs to have the other book(s) out to see where things go and what happens.
And that is why it fails.
__________________
People in third world countries are so lucky they don't have to deal with these problems. - TheGodBen

I'm on twitter now. @DimesDaniel
Dimesdan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:37 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.