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Old November 9 2013, 04:55 AM   #436
Lord Garth, FOI
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Re: Scaling the Excelsior Filming Model

So we have an official excelsior length
Now on to Connie and refit
450ish anyone?
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Old November 9 2013, 05:10 AM   #437
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Re: Scaling the Excelsior Filming Model

Wow, Bob, great find. Interesting that the botanical garden was almost a bar. It's a shame the set they used didn't match those big windows exactly.

So, I'd really like everyone's input at this point on the two Excelsior sizes. While I feel that the larger size makes more sense, it's also quite possible to make the smaller version work with the window alignments, with a minor degree of fudgery in regard to the saucer window arrangements, as thee secondary hull can actually have the same deck arrangement between the two sizes by simply and arbitrarily swapping 12 feet decks for 9 feet decks.

At this point, I really need your help deciding which I should consider right.

Check out the 622 meter version:


...and compare it to the 467 meter version:


Please note that the deck arrangement in my 467 meter version is slightly different from before, as I've moved the saucer rim back to a full two decks thick arrangement. The heights in relation to the deck feel a little weird to me, but if I'm already suspending disbelief for the bridge I don't consider it a dealbreaker.

Compare the green lines of the decks to the locations of the windows, from Gus's Excelsior drawing. (I negatized it to make it a little easier to see on my black background.) Please also note that my study of photographs has found that the windows on the plateau under the bridge on his drawing are a bit too high for some reason.


Further, have a look at the large and small Excelsior next to the official sized Enterprise refit.


So, please help me decide here guys. What do you think? Which size do you consider more correct?
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Old November 9 2013, 03:44 PM   #438
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Re: Scaling the Excelsior Filming Model

I'd go with the larger Excelsior.
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Old November 9 2013, 04:23 PM   #439
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Re: Scaling the Excelsior Filming Model

To me, 622 meters is overall more convincing.
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Old November 9 2013, 06:24 PM   #440
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Re: Scaling the Excelsior Filming Model

I think you should scale the TMP Enterprise to 725m and the Excelsior to 1,400. >.>
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Old November 9 2013, 08:41 PM   #441
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Re: Scaling the Excelsior Filming Model

Albertese wrote: View Post
Mytran, I like your style. I'm borrowing it for this next one,






--Alex
I love the combination of the two drawings. I'd like to see a secondary hull made up of the lines of both combined--the TOS dish antenna but the longer refit shuttlebay and sec hul keel...
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Old November 10 2013, 05:43 PM   #442
Albertese
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Re: Scaling the Excelsior Filming Model

All right...

I've shuffled the drawings a bit to make the two secondary hulls line up at the shuttlebay deck and the forward bulkhead that the defelctor machinery attaches to.

This may not be what you meant, but hopefully it'll get you in the direction you're looking to go in.




Enjoy!

--Alex
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Last edited by Albertese; November 10 2013 at 08:30 PM.
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Old November 11 2013, 05:45 AM   #443
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Re: Scaling the Excelsior Filming Model

I'm almost 100% sure that's Simon Matthew Coles' model of the Excelsior from Sci-Fi Meshes. Ask Tobias, but I'm sure that pic isn't his model.
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Old November 11 2013, 08:15 AM   #444
Mytran
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Re: Scaling the Excelsior Filming Model

FWIW, I think the larger Excelsior makes more sense. The original intention may have been to make it smaller but that's not what we see on screen, and it strains credibility to try and squash everything in.
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Old November 11 2013, 04:09 PM   #445
Albertese
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Re: Scaling the Excelsior Filming Model

Yeah, I like the bigger size. Let's not forget that linefrom TUC..."By God, that's a big ship!"

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Old November 11 2013, 10:24 PM   #446
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Re: Scaling the Excelsior Filming Model

While I like the larger version, and I don't see why it couldn't be that large, it just feels too big for the era... Not exactly a logical statement, but that's my stance on it.
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Old November 12 2013, 02:02 AM   #447
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Re: Scaling the Excelsior Filming Model

I like the larger Excelsior size as well. It meshes alot better with whats on screen.
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Old November 12 2013, 08:27 PM   #448
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Re: Scaling the Excelsior Filming Model

Patrickivan wrote: View Post
While I like the larger version, and I don't see why it couldn't be that large, it just feels too big for the era... Not exactly a logical statement, but that's my stance on it.
The era that built that spacedock?
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Old November 13 2013, 03:26 AM   #449
Praetor
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Re: Scaling the Excelsior Filming Model

Howdy gang.

beamMe wrote: View Post
I'd go with the larger Excelsior.
CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
To me, 622 meters is overall more convincing.
Mytran wrote: View Post
FWIW, I think the larger Excelsior makes more sense. The original intention may have been to make it smaller but that's not what we see on screen, and it strains credibility to try and squash everything in.
Albertese wrote: View Post
Yeah, I like the bigger size. Let's not forget that linefrom TUC..."By God, that's a big ship!"

--Alex
blssdwlf wrote: View Post
I like the larger Excelsior size as well. It meshes alot better with whats on screen.
Alright, so that's five for the large Excelsior...

Patrickivan wrote: View Post
While I like the larger version, and I don't see why it couldn't be that large, it just feels too big for the era... Not exactly a logical statement, but that's my stance on it.
And one for the smaller. Kinda. Any others favoring the smaller one?

Nob Akimoto wrote: View Post
I think you should scale the TMP Enterprise to 725m and the Excelsior to 1,400. >.>
Now you're just making up numbers to mess up my math, ain't ya?

USS Mariner wrote: View Post
I'm almost 100% sure that's Simon Matthew Coles' model of the Excelsior from Sci-Fi Meshes. Ask Tobias, but I'm sure that pic isn't his model.
My bad, it might be but I had seen renders of it with "The Light Works" on them, which I thought was Tobias Richter.

Albertese wrote: View Post
All right...

I've shuffled the drawings a bit to make the two secondary hulls line up at the shuttlebay deck and the forward bulkhead that the defelctor machinery attaches to.

This may not be what you meant, but hopefully it'll get you in the direction you're looking to go in.




Enjoy!

--Alex
That really nicely helps reinforce again how indeed it is possible the two designs are the same ship, just rebuilt and reorganized a bit.

So not that it's very definitive, but this is kind of neat. Have a look at the Lakota and the Defiant scaled against one another.



Interesting how the math works out here...

Defiant - 1381 px
Excelsior - 4934 px

Excelsior @ 622 meters
622/4934 = .126 m/px
1381 * .126 = 174 meter Defiant

Excelsior @ 467 meters
467/4934 = .0946 m/px
1381 * .0946 = 130 meter Defiant

So, with the larger Excelsior we end up with the larger size postulated by Bernd over at EAS, and at the smaller/official Excelsior we end up with a ship slightly larger than the official Defiant size.

Of course, testing anything's scale against the Defiant is like trying to ask a sasquatch if the Lock Ness monster exists...

As a final thought for the day, this is what the 305 meter Enterprise refit looks like next to the Excelsior. Not that I necessarily think the refit has to be 305 meters, mind you. Just for giggles.

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Old November 13 2013, 04:18 AM   #450
kennysmith
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Re: Scaling the Excelsior Filming Model

i want you to just try this for the TOS star ship onlt, from the inside and out side of the ship, i do like where you are going with this but i do need it for this ship only of ncc1701 enterprise, no A,B,C,or D,E. just this one only.
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