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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old August 26 2013, 05:19 PM   #16
Captain Robau
Lieutenant Junior Grade
 
Location: Virginia
Re: Admiral Marcus and Section 31

Timo wrote: View Post
There was actually quite a bit of dialogue where Scotty questions whether these folks are Starfleet or not - and it appears they indeed are from a separate "security contractor", that is, mercenaries. Doesn't mean they would be the normal or intended crew of the Vengeance; they are just what Marcus employs for his one unofficial sortie with the ship.

Yes, there was also (somewhat vague) indication that Scotty is surprised by the very existence of the Vengeance, never mind her design specs and oddball crew and nefarious mission etc. But that doesn't mean the ship would have been built in secret. Secret from Klingons, no doubt, secret from Romulans, yeah - but Scotty not knowing about it doesn't yet mean she would have been built secret from the Federation.

Really, all that actually happens is that Khan gives Kirk an address for a dockyard, and Scotty checks out that dockyard. That Scotty is able to do so suggests that anybody is, meaning the dockyard isn't particularly secret after all. Hell, it's deep within the Federation, at the very heart of the Sol system!

Basically, Khan just told Kirk to send Scotty on a dinghy to have a look at a particular dock at Newport News, something any fisherman could do from his boat, and does every Sunday. But while the fisherman would see nothing of interest there, the very fact of Khan giving pointers to that specific dock would alert Kirk and Scotty into taking a closer look and realizing that there is more to that humdrum dock and its supposedly humdrum ship-under-construction than meets the eye.

All the rest of his appearances, he wore that leather number, as did most of the other S31 folks we saw.
Well, all other S31 folks we ever saw - namely, the background extras on the holodeck in "Inquisition". Everybody else associated with that organization was merely doing its bidding without actually being a member or paid employee, and even that list is extremely short: Admiral Ross and Julian Bashir. And out of those two, Bashir was faking it.

So basically we're still in the situation where Sloan is the only actual S31 member known to exist for real. That is, if his own feverish fantasies count for "real".

Timo Saloniemi
I like the analogy to Newport News (in particular because I used to work there and now work directly for the DOD). That's exactly right, Starfleet would know there is a new ship being built and it would be common knowledge. The particular specs on that ship would highly classified (weapons, propulsion, etc.). That's what the secret is - the ship's design, not the fact it is being built.
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Old August 27 2013, 11:03 AM   #17
Noddy
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Re: Admiral Marcus and Section 31

It does seem a bit irresponsible of Marcus to so casually tell Kirk about S31, even if he did plan on killing the young captain soon. What's to stop Kirk imparting this knowledge to others?
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Old August 27 2013, 11:48 AM   #18
Timo
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Re: Admiral Marcus and Section 31

What harm would that do, though? Marcus is proud of the organization, and probably assumes that everybody in Starfleet would be. And if Kirk leaks the thing outside Starfleet, then he has betrayed his oath to Starfleet. Marcus doesn't have any reason to think that Kirk would be a disgusting traitor and oath-breaker, now does he?

Timo Saloniemi
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Old August 27 2013, 09:57 PM   #19
Hartzilla2007
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Location: Star Trekkin Across the universe.
Re: Admiral Marcus and Section 31

Noddy wrote: View Post
It does seem a bit irresponsible of Marcus to so casually tell Kirk about S31, even if he did plan on killing the young captain soon. What's to stop Kirk imparting this knowledge to others?
Why would he be worried, from Marcus's description Section 31 sounds like its just some top secret think tank that specializes in developing defenses for possible threats, considering they were 6 months to a year after a nutty Romulan from the future with an all powerful pointy ship of death destroyed a major federation planet, sounds like something sensible to have not to mention what other big scary things from TOS we know are lurking around.

we only know different because we've seen DS9 and Enterprise, Kirk would not have this knowledge.
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Old August 31 2013, 10:49 AM   #20
Noddy
Captain
 
Re: Admiral Marcus and Section 31

Section 31 is quite casually mentioned in the report into "John Harrison" going rogue, as can be seen in the prop created for the film. For an organization that prides itself on being undetectable, they sure aren't being very coy, are they?
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Old August 31 2013, 05:23 PM   #21
The Keeper
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Location: Where reality ends and illusion begins
Re: Admiral Marcus and Section 31

Noddy wrote: View Post
Section 31 is quite casually mentioned in the report into "John Harrison" going rogue, as can be seen in the prop created for the film. For an organization that prides itself on being undetectable, they sure aren't being very coy, are they?
^ Greater Transparency

Last edited by The Keeper; September 1 2013 at 03:43 AM. Reason: added post to which I was responding
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Old August 31 2013, 05:49 PM   #22
LobsterAfternoon
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Re: Admiral Marcus and Section 31

That's my thought as well.
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Old September 1 2013, 01:28 PM   #23
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: Admiral Marcus and Section 31

Who would have been entitled to read that report, though? (Not the audience, apparently... But that's beside the point.)

Moreover, even those people cleared to read the report would face censorship, as supposedly the prop had all the Section 31 references masked in black...

Timo Saloniemi
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