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Old August 17 2013, 03:15 AM   #31
Jan
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Re: BABYLON 5 - First time watching series

Dream wrote: View Post
Franklin's level of insubordination was crazy. He really should have just followed his orders, instead of going behind Sinclair's back and against the parents wishes.
I loved Franklin's reply to Sinclair, though:

People come to doctors because they want us to be gods. They want us to 'make it better' or 'make it not so.' They want to be healed. Whatever, they want, they come to me when their prayers aren't enough.

(the heart of it)
Well, if I have to take the responsibility, then I claim the authority too.

The best part about this episode is that everybody had a valid point and they all got to make it. No easy answers, but great questions.

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Old August 17 2013, 04:01 AM   #32
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Re: BABYLON 5 - First time watching series

Dream wrote: View Post
Mr Light wrote: View Post
The Human-Minbari enmity was covered more in the Gathering pilot, I guess it is a little absent in these eps...
The Human-Minbari enmity should really be much more important in the first season. The two groups of people should nearly always be at each others throats. I think it would have been more realistic if Sinclair had started the season as someone who hated Minbaris because of his time in the war, but put that aside to work at peace. Maybe have his friendship with Delenn develop along the way.

At this point the so called huge war between humans and Minbari didn't leave much of an impact. It feels like it took place 50 years ago instead of 10.

Look at G'Kar and Londo's treatment of each other. It actually feels more real because of how much G'Kar resents Londo's people for invading Narn world(s) in the past.
There is distrust, but the Minbari are still very isolationist and don't intermingle with humans or other races. It's that isolationism which makes it look like there is not much conflict. With Narns and Centauri the conflict is all in the open because the two are not very isolationist. After the Minbari war, they more or less drew back to their space and haven't interfered with Earth and Earth stays out of their space. However, there is a lot of distrust and suspicion within their own peoples and between each other due to how the war ended.
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Old August 17 2013, 04:31 AM   #33
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Re: BABYLON 5 - First time watching series

And you will see the interactions that do occur between Humans and Minbari will often address the enmity and distrust
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Old August 17 2013, 11:58 AM   #34
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Re: BABYLON 5 - First time watching series

Believers is one of the first season's best episodes.
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Old August 17 2013, 03:41 PM   #35
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Re: BABYLON 5 - First time watching series

^I might agree with that if Franklin didn't come across as such a self-righteous, insensitive, morally superior prick.

It's probably good that I saw this episode out of order, as it might have taken me a long time to have any affection for the character otherwise after this.

I'd be very curious to see how a Dr. McCoy, EMH or Phlox type would have handled this. I suspect Crusher would have behaved similar to Franklin, really.
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Old August 17 2013, 03:50 PM   #36
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Re: BABYLON 5 - First time watching series

My main problem with Believers is the alien dialogue and their little made up culture was just so ridiculous sounding and stilted and silly that it robs the situation of any real pathos.
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Old August 17 2013, 04:15 PM   #37
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Re: BABYLON 5 - First time watching series

Episode 11: Survivors
Garibaldi is framed for an explosion on the station. Now on the run he must prove his innocence.

B5 does "The Fugitive". A showcase episode for Garibaldi with him stripped of his rank and desperately looking for answers. Obviously, I never suspected he was responsible for the attack but it was interesting to learn about his past a drunk, and the relationship he had with Lianna's family. There was a nice look at the criminal underworld, and funny scene with the alien praying mantis still believing Garibaldi was still a cop while he was on the run.

Episode 12: By Any Means Necessary
After an accident, the dock workers demand better working conditions or they'll go on strike. Sinclair is forced to choose sides.

Apparently, this episode's "workers go on strike" plot was so good it was reused years later on NuBSG.

This was a filler episode in which we get to learn more about the grunts working on the station. The representative sent by the senate was pure mustache twirling dbag, whose only purpose was escalate things so it could turn into a bloodbath. It ends well enough when Sinclair accepts all the demands from the workers.

The B plot involves G'Kar desperately trying to buying a flower from Londo for an important Narn ritual. It was humorous with Londo never intending to sell it. These two guys are really dicks when it comes to dealing with each other.

Episode 13: Signs and Portents
Londo receives a highly valuable Centauri artifact known as the Eye, raiders increase their attacks near the station, and a mysterious man in black is going around asking the four alien ambassadors about what they want. Sinclair meets a Centauri woman who tells him the station will blow up in the future.

Mythology episode?

It was interesting to learn more about the Centauri government and that an Emperor exists. The increased raider attacks near the station end up being connected to the artifact, it turns out to be staged so the people in the ship and the Lord Centauri could steal it. But they are blown real up really good by a huge black menacing alien ship, that wants the artifact back in Londo's hands or thinks it's important that Londo stays as ambassador.

The mysterious man going around asking the four leading ambassadors about what they wanted felt like a devilish kind of character.

G'Kar wants revenge against the Centauri for what they did to his people.
Delenn is overwhelmed and immediately tells the man to leave.
Londo wants the Centauri to be restored to full power.
Kosh confronts the man, and there seems to be a very long tense moment between the two. It seems the Vorlon can see what the man really is and tells him to leave.

My theory is the man was there to learn about what the four alien races want. He might have some mental powers to get everyone to tell him the truth. His ship which destroyed the main raider starship, seem quite powerful. Is he from a hostile alien race perhaps?

Sinclair tells Garibaldi about his recovered memory ("And the Sky Full of Stars") of being captured by the Minbari, and asks for help to learn more. It is discovered that his appointment as Commander of the station was no accident, the Minbari government really really wanted him in charge over more qualified military personnel for some reason. It's now becoming obvious the Minbari have some strange plans for Sinclair.

Episode 14: TKO
Garibaldi's old friend comes aboard the station, and has a plan to become a big shot boxer again by challenging an alien boxing champion.

B5 does "Rocky". The only thing missing was a montage with the "Gonna Fly Now" music playing during Smith's training scenes. It seems a boxing episode was so interesting, that nuBSG writers decided to also do a boxing episode years later.

Pretty weak episode. This episode didn't really have any important character development or move to plot in any significant way. The final boxing fight was cool at least, but the writers just HAD to rip off "Rocky" by having the fight end in a draw. This was probably the biggest side story compared to most of previous episodes of the season.
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Old August 17 2013, 04:28 PM   #38
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Re: BABYLON 5 - First time watching series

Mr Light wrote: View Post
My main problem with Believers is the alien dialogue and their little made up culture was just so ridiculous sounding and stilted and silly that it robs the situation of any real pathos.
Didn't seem any more absurd than Islam or other mainstream religions to me.
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Old August 17 2013, 04:32 PM   #39
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Re: BABYLON 5 - First time watching series

TKO had no important character Development? Did you miss the Ivanova part of the episode?
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Old August 17 2013, 04:37 PM   #40
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Re: BABYLON 5 - First time watching series

Sindatur wrote: View Post
TKO had no important character Development? Did you miss the Ivanova part of the episode?
Oh I remember that. It was good. But I think the writers waited too long to have her deal with it, that it lost some of its impact. It should have been in the episode after her father died.
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Old August 17 2013, 04:38 PM   #41
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Re: BABYLON 5 - First time watching series

DonIago wrote: View Post
Believers irks me a great deal.
Believers is my least favorite episode of the whole show. They could never have made it, and it wouldn't bother me. It added nothing to the overall plot, and could be skipped on a re-watch, which of course, I never do, simply because I love babylon 5 (second only to Star Trek), and am (unfortunately in this case) a completetist.
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Old August 17 2013, 04:39 PM   #42
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Re: BABYLON 5 - First time watching series

I actually really like "By Any Means", I think it's really well written and I enjoyed both storylines a lot. I loved seeing the real world behind the scenes bit with the dock workers, and the Londo/G'Kar story was just hilarious.

Trivia: By Any Means is the only episode written by JMS' wife. She also wrote one B5 novel.

TKO, on the other hand, is just awful Survivors ain't that great either.

And please, bring on the theorizing on the mysteries of the show! Unfortunately I started watching at the end of Season Four, so everything was utterly spoiled for me, so I have no clue what it was like to not know what was going on :sobs:
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Old August 17 2013, 04:44 PM   #43
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Re: BABYLON 5 - First time watching series

RandyS wrote: View Post
Believers is my least favorite episode of the whole show. They could never have made it, and it wouldn't bother me.
My least favourite Babylon 5 stories are A Call to Arms and Legend of the Rangers. Horrifying.

It added nothing to the overall plot, and could be skipped on a re-watch
This could be said of most of Season 1 though? Only a handful of episodes are vital.
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Old August 17 2013, 04:56 PM   #44
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Re: BABYLON 5 - First time watching series

Almost every Season One episode introduced some character or concept or bit of backstory... cept for Believers!
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Old August 17 2013, 05:01 PM   #45
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Re: BABYLON 5 - First time watching series

I agree that Rangers is pretty weak. I feel I can't even objectively speak to Arms because I find the soundtrack horrible to the point that it distracts me from anything else.

But let's avoid getting spoilerish.

I don't own S1 on DVD precisely because so much of it isn't what I consider to be the show at its best. I understand that there's a whole lot of world and storybuilding going on, I just don't find it compelling enough that I wish to watch it again.

Though actually...I wouldn't mind details on what commentary tracks are available and whether they're worth the listen.
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