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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old August 16 2013, 12:44 AM   #31
Guy Gardener
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Re: common misconceptions about Voyager

Melakon wrote: View Post
In "Dark Frontier" (I think), they somehow beam a photon torpedo through Borg shields and detonated it. I've never figured out how they did that.
The Borg have a history of not raising their shields until they feel threatened.

Hundreds of Federations commando's can be crawling about a tactical cube, and the Borg can still feel unthreatened.
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Old August 16 2013, 12:57 AM   #32
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Re: common misconceptions about Voyager

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Q's kid q got into a huge amount of trouble because he crossed a line of space he shouldn't have that he was told not to and it pissed off an arbitrary alien species that wanted him to face alien justice for his alien crimes. . .
Wait a minute. Wasn't that pissed off arbitrary alien species actually Daddy Q in disguise?

"Captain Janeway taught me to respect the laws of alien cultures!"
Icheb, today's lesson is about the Kama Sutra.
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Old August 16 2013, 01:20 AM   #33
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Re: common misconceptions about Voyager

So basically the concept of this thread is the OP asking and/or complaining that everyone doesn't like Voyager as much as they do?
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Old August 16 2013, 01:22 AM   #34
Guy Gardener
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Re: common misconceptions about Voyager

Melakon wrote: View Post
Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Q's kid q got into a huge amount of trouble because he crossed a line of space he shouldn't have that he was told not to and it pissed off an arbitrary alien species that wanted him to face alien justice for his alien crimes. . .
Wait a minute. Wasn't that pissed off arbitrary alien species actually Daddy Q in disguise?
They didn't know that yet.

Maybe Janeway figured it out and that's why she thought giving q back a corpse at the end of her babysitting gig, if there was a %1 chance she was wrong and it was a real pissed off alien, was a good idea?

At a point like this, it is the parent, or godparent in this case, who is supposed to stand up and take responsibilities for their idiot (god) children.

Your 16 year old child crashes your car into a phone pole.

The police are put out too.

Who is going to pay for the damages, and fines?

You or your jobless, witless child?
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Old August 16 2013, 01:24 AM   #35
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Re: common misconceptions about Voyager

R. Star wrote: View Post
So basically the concept of this thread is the OP asking and/or complaining that everyone doesn't like Voyager as much as they do?
Yes, it's completely educational.
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Old August 16 2013, 01:28 AM   #36
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Re: common misconceptions about Voyager

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Your 16 year old child crashes your car into a phone pole.

The police are put out too.

Who is going to pay for the damages, and fines?

You or your jobless, witless child?
It ain't gonna be me, I ain't got no kids.

Ain't got no car either.
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Old August 16 2013, 01:28 AM   #37
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Re: common misconceptions about Voyager

The Emissary wrote: View Post
One misconception I've noticed is VOY is cited as "ruining" the Borg because they were constantly destroying Cubes and the like.
That's not the big reason. The Borg were ruined as a villain because Voyager never lost any crew to them. No deaths, no assimilations. Voyager scored over them time and time again and they were totally ineffective. Voyager liberated drones, started Borg revolts, even had some of their crew get voluntarily assimilated and then escape. There were never any consequences. This was the horrific scary villain? You could no longer take the Borg seriously as an opponent.

In TNG the Borg were the equivalent of Jason Vorhees.

In VOY they were the equivalent of Wile. E. Coyote.
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Old August 16 2013, 08:23 AM   #38
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Re: common misconceptions about Voyager

Well to be slighlty fair to VOY the Borg started to go down hill in TNG's "Descent", Yes I know that wasn't the collective they were dealing with in that particular episode.

They made 6 apperances in TNG, 1 in DSN and ENT and 22 in VOY.

In the case of VOY they first appeared in "Unity" and lastly in "Endgame" A span of something like 114 episodes. So that would be ~20% (or one fifth)of all episode from first apperance to last apperance within the show. The problem any show has that overuse of a villian can lead to villian decay.
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Old August 16 2013, 09:17 AM   #39
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Re: common misconceptions about Voyager

Scorpious from farscqape rocked from beginning to end.

A villain who's character, who's actors internal fire kept the dread alive despite surviving some of the worst imaginable scripts had to be Ronald Sandoval from Earth Final Conflict.

Oh! What about Julian Sark from Alias?

The Good Guys finally capture him and threaten torture, he giggles, and explains that all they need for his absolute yet temporary loyalty is to pay him one dollar more than his current employers.
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Old August 16 2013, 09:25 AM   #40
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Re: common misconceptions about Voyager

Guy Gardener has hella big cuffs.
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Old August 16 2013, 09:39 AM   #41
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Re: common misconceptions about Voyager

Silvercrest wrote: View Post
The Emissary wrote: View Post
One misconception I've noticed is VOY is cited as "ruining" the Borg because they were constantly destroying Cubes and the like.
That's not the big reason. The Borg were ruined as a villain because Voyager never lost any crew to them. No deaths, no assimilations. Voyager scored over them time and time again and they were totally ineffective. Voyager liberated drones, started Borg revolts, even had some of their crew get voluntarily assimilated and then escape. There were never any consequences. This was the horrific scary villain? You could no longer take the Borg seriously as an opponent.

In TNG the Borg were the equivalent of Jason Vorhees.

In VOY they were the equivalent of Wile. E. Coyote.
It may not be the big reason, but it is a reason. I've seen loads of people say that VOY made fighting the Borg insanely easy by "constantly blowing up their ships".
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Old August 16 2013, 10:27 AM   #42
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Re: common misconceptions about Voyager

You know how sometimes a perfectly capable woman pretends she sucks at something to make her boyfriend feel less insignificant and mediocre?

The Queen and Harry is all I'm saying.
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Old August 16 2013, 01:17 PM   #43
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Re: common misconceptions about Voyager

The Emissary wrote: View Post
Silvercrest wrote: View Post
The Emissary wrote: View Post
One misconception I've noticed is VOY is cited as "ruining" the Borg because they were constantly destroying Cubes and the like.
That's not the big reason. The Borg were ruined as a villain because Voyager never lost any crew to them. No deaths, no assimilations. Voyager scored over them time and time again and they were totally ineffective. Voyager liberated drones, started Borg revolts, even had some of their crew get voluntarily assimilated and then escape. There were never any consequences. This was the horrific scary villain? You could no longer take the Borg seriously as an opponent.

In TNG the Borg were the equivalent of Jason Vorhees.

In VOY they were the equivalent of Wile. E. Coyote.
It may not be the big reason, but it is a reason. I've seen loads of people say that VOY made fighting the Borg insanely easy by "constantly blowing up their ships".
that's exactly the misconception. They WEREN'T constantly blowing up their ships
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Old August 16 2013, 01:36 PM   #44
Guy Gardener
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Re: common misconceptions about Voyager

Are we talking about Voyager the ship, or Voyager the series?

From Scorpion.

BORG [OC]: Species 8472 has penetrated Matrix Zero-One-Zero, Grid Nineteen. Eight planets destroyed, three hundred twelve vessels disabled, four million, six hundred twenty-one Borg eliminated. We must seize control of the Alpha Quadrant vessel, and take it into the alien realm.
SEVEN: We understand.
The entire Federation almost fell to one cube only 10 years earlier.

Now when the almighty Collective pick fights, the Borg lose planets.

Meanwhile...

Icheb alone could taken out a cube if he had sex with a drone on the opposing forces.

Borg AIDS.

If he had sex with the Queen... Well, what Janeway did in Endgame is what would have have happened to the collective at any point that the Queen and Icheb slipped into a bubble bath together and enjoyed each others boodies.

The only thing that stopped the dominoes falling which would have inoculated the entire crew against assimilation (after a fashion), was that boys awkward virginity.
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Old August 16 2013, 04:37 PM   #45
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Re: common misconceptions about Voyager

MacLeod wrote: View Post

This is one of the biggest critisims I've heared levelled against VOY. Now if they wanted her to be the book Captain fine, if they wanted her to be more of a loose cannon fine. If they wanted to show a progression from b the book to a more of do what I need to get my crew home fine. But pick one and run with it not fluctutate back and forth.
This is what happens when you're constantly replacing Showrunners nearly every season.

VOY's premise clearly indicated it should be a more serialised show, yet it was basically TNG 2.0 highly episodic.
TOS' plot was a similar "Out on our own" type thing, where was its' serialization?

The ship seemed to look like it had just left Utopia PLanitia almost every week. No matter how much damage it had taken the previous week.
No worse than how DS9 should've had more war damage, but always looked good.

It was supposed to be resource poor but they seemed to have an endless supply of shuttles and they managed to manufacture not 1 but 2 Delta Flyers.
They had an Industrial Replicator, and space is full of things for them to draw power from. Their "We lack power!" thing wasn't thought out very well.

It was clearly stated in dialouge they couldn't replace the 38 Photon Torpedeos they had. Yet they fired more than that.
What didn't make sense was them saying they couldn't make more torpedoes.

Some characters showed almost zero growth between "Caretaker" and "Endgame"
TOS and TNG did this too. No on complained.

That's not the big reason. The Borg were ruined as a villain because Voyager never lost any crew to them. No deaths, no assimilations. Voyager scored over them time and time again and they were totally ineffective. Voyager liberated drones, started Borg revolts, even had some of their crew get voluntarily assimilated and then escape. There were never any consequences. This was the horrific scary villain? You could no longer take the Borg seriously as an opponent.
In TNG any damage done by the Borg or crews lost were always replaced by the next episode, with no holdovers from their prior encounters leaving any "scars" (except Picard). No one complained there.

Of course, most of it comes down to the pathetic whining over how there shouldn't be a single alien species capable of fighting the Borg at all. That Voyager showed there was even ONE alien species that could fight the Borg (the 8472) was just another strike against the show.

Nevermind that if TNG or DS9 had introduced the 8472 aliens, no one would mind and they'd think it made sense for there to be aliens on par with the Borg.
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