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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old October 1 2013, 08:44 AM   #331
teacock
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Re: common misconceptions about Voyager

And now he's dead.
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Old October 1 2013, 08:53 AM   #332
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Re: common misconceptions about Voyager

1989?

Well, I did think that he had been keeping a low profile recently.
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Old October 1 2013, 01:02 PM   #333
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Re: common misconceptions about Voyager

Anwar wrote: View Post

The main reason so many folks complain over Tuvix is because they just hated Tuvok and Neelix to start with and wanted them gone.
Your presumption to be able to see into the heads of fans (who all apparently think alike) is pretty obnoxious.
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Old October 1 2013, 01:20 PM   #334
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Re: common misconceptions about Voyager

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
It was a guilt trip.

Besides he said that he forgave them for doing the wrong thing.

What sort of crazy person forgives you doing the right thing?

If you're doing the right thing, you don't have to be forgiven.
Tuvix I guess.
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Old October 1 2013, 01:25 PM   #335
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Re: common misconceptions about Voyager

Anwar wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post
Yanks wrote: View Post

I can make an argument for Tuvix, but it's the wrong one. There are two murders that need righted.

Tuvix loses.
Who murdered Neelix and Tuvok again? An accident happened. Tragic as that may be, no one should be at fault for that. The only murder in that episode was done by Janeway. There is no moral justification to take an innocent person's life against his will. Janeway decided she liked Tuvok(and maybe Neelix) more and that was the only reason, otherwise Kes's crying wouldn't have been what made her make the choice. You can argue Tuvix was a coward for not falling on his sword, but last I checked cowardice isn't a capital crime.

Gone is the Janeway that was appalled at the suggestion of executing Suder for murder or that wouldn't even kill a Viidian who stole Neelix's lungs and left him for dead.
The main reason so many folks complain over Tuvix is because they just hated Tuvok and Neelix to start with and wanted them gone.

If this was TOS and it was Spock and McCoy fused together, with the possibility of losing both characters, no one would mind getting them back.
..and Kirk would have been memorialized for making it happen and making the right decision.

It hypocracy at it's best.
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Old October 1 2013, 01:29 PM   #336
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Re: common misconceptions about Voyager

R. Star wrote: View Post
Yanks wrote: View Post

I can make an argument for Tuvix, but it's the wrong one. There are two murders that need righted.

Tuvix loses.
Who murdered Neelix and Tuvok again? An accident happened. Tragic as that may be, no one should be at fault for that. The only murder in that episode was done by Janeway. There is no moral justification to take an innocent person's life against his will. Janeway decided she liked Tuvok(and maybe Neelix) more and that was the only reason, otherwise Kes's crying wouldn't have been what made her make the choice. You can argue Tuvix was a coward for not falling on his sword, but last I checked cowardice isn't a capital crime.

Gone is the Janeway that was appalled at the suggestion of executing Suder for murder or that wouldn't even kill a Viidian who stole Neelix's lungs and left him for dead.
Why does someone have to be at fault? How would that change anything?

There is no moral justification to allow this mistake to take the lives of 2 people.

Kes' crying made me puke.

Not gone at all. Arrived is the Janeway that will do what she needs to do to save her crew.
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Old October 1 2013, 01:33 PM   #337
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Re: common misconceptions about Voyager

Their lives are already lost. Restoring that requires the execution of another, who is innocent.

And it would be exactly the same moral question with Kirk and his crew.
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Old October 1 2013, 01:40 PM   #338
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Re: common misconceptions about Voyager

Stoo wrote: View Post
Their lives are already lost. Restoring that requires the execution of another, who is innocent.

And it would be exactly the same moral question with Kirk and his crew.
I would submit their lives are not lost, mearly in a different state. As life can't be created.

If the result of the experiment ended up creating a blob that had been determined to be sentient, noone would be making the argument against Janeway's decision.
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Old October 1 2013, 01:52 PM   #339
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Re: common misconceptions about Voyager

I might. Others here might. Don't make presumptions about our reactions.

A bloblike creature would be harder for us to emphathise and identify with - simply our human nature, we respond more to life forms that look like us - so that could be a pretty interesting premise.

Tuvok and Neelix's lives had stopped and could not continue without stopping someone else who didn't want to stop and had basic rights not to stop that the federation should be upholding. Not sure why you're quibbling semantics or what you mean by life can't be creaed.
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Old October 1 2013, 02:06 PM   #340
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Re: common misconceptions about Voyager

It's a transporter accident. They were able to fix it.
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Old October 1 2013, 02:17 PM   #341
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Re: common misconceptions about Voyager

That statement can hold literally true for either side of the argument.
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Old October 1 2013, 02:51 PM   #342
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Re: common misconceptions about Voyager

teacake wrote: View Post
It's a transporter accident. They were able to fix it.
Exactly.
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Old October 1 2013, 02:53 PM   #343
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Re: common misconceptions about Voyager

Stoo wrote: View Post
Their lives are already lost. Restoring that requires the execution of another, who is innocent.

And it would be exactly the same moral question with Kirk and his crew.
...and Kirk would of course brought Spock and McCoy back and been heralded for it.
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Old October 1 2013, 07:11 PM   #344
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Re: common misconceptions about Voyager

One was a transporter accident.

The Doctor wanted to root into his brain to get his mobile emitter back.

Apparently he wasn't allowed to, because One was a real person who it would have been naughty to murder.
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Old October 1 2013, 07:29 PM   #345
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Re: common misconceptions about Voyager

One wasn't created from the loss of someone else's life.
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