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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old August 18 2013, 09:55 AM   #136
Guy Gardener
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Re: common misconceptions about Voyager

Wait? What? The whales died out again!!!???
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Old August 18 2013, 09:57 AM   #137
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Re: common misconceptions about Voyager

Sperm whales dying out, that's the definition of ironic.

When they actually go extinct I will laugh so hard!
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Old August 18 2013, 10:03 AM   #138
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Re: common misconceptions about Voyager

Because Star Trek IV The Voyager Home was Right?

(Worst T-Shirt Slogan ever.)
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Old August 18 2013, 10:06 AM   #139
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Re: common misconceptions about Voyager

No because of the irony.
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Old August 18 2013, 10:54 AM   #140
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Re: common misconceptions about Voyager

I guess also in fairness, Berman forgot that it was already established the Borg were in the Delta Quadrant till after Voyager launded.

I was at a (probably thee) convention were someone asked Berman "So, with Voyager in Delta Quadrant, does this mean there will be a lot of Borg in Voyager" --- I remember so clearly the expression of "Oh shit" on his face as he realized he landed Voyager in the middle of the Borg.

The pursuing fluster of comments after that of him trying to explain himself was amusing, but I do recall him giving up conventions for a while after that --- probably for good reason.
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Old August 18 2013, 11:13 AM   #141
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Re: common misconceptions about Voyager

Anwar wrote: View Post
DonIago wrote: View Post
It's been my experience that he's of the opinion that fans are somehow merciless in their allegedly unwarranted criticism of VOY in situations where they presumably hypocritically condone the same issues in other series.
Well, they are. If TNG Had introduced the 8472 aliens no one would care that there was at least one alien species out there that could fight the Borg.

If DS9 had made the Vidiians into Gamma Quadrant folks ravaged by some GQ virus that made them the way they are, no one would mind them either.

But do this stuff in VOY? Nothing but complaints.

This was one thing that figured in my earlier post where I observed that "This other series did this too" isn't really a defense of VOY so much as a potential critique of the other series.
If those series are excused for this, then why not VOY too?
Perhaps because a portion of the audiance had had enough of it. You can watch a show or series of shows happily for hundreds of hours, forgiving minor details but then something happens and a show does something that breaks that suspension of disbelief. From then on in the show has to got to work twice as hard to get that suspension of disbelief back.

So perhaps for viewers who came to ST via VOY were more forgiving and who then came later to the earlier Treks might be less forgiving of those.

For those that enjoyed VOY as it was great, those that critise VOY in some if not most cases felt it could have been so much more.
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Old August 18 2013, 05:06 PM   #142
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Re: common misconceptions about Voyager

Great, so VOY is just unlucky then.
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Old August 18 2013, 06:00 PM   #143
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Re: common misconceptions about Voyager

Well, yes, in some regards. But not -just- unlucky.

Later entries in any franchise are almost always going to face more scrutiny than the earlier ones. I think that's generally understood.

To some degree, and not without reason, one might expect that as a franchise progresses the powers behind it will learn from prior mistakes and make an effort to avoid repeating them.
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Old August 18 2013, 06:24 PM   #144
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Re: common misconceptions about Voyager

DonIago wrote: View Post
Well, yes, in some regards. But not -just- unlucky.

Later entries in any franchise are almost always going to face more scrutiny than the earlier ones. I think that's generally understood.

To some degree, and not without reason, one might expect that as a franchise progresses the powers behind it will learn from prior mistakes and make an effort to avoid repeating them.
Actually that makes sense any where but Hollywood, there the powers that be will tell you that they want more of the same, just different. (Some book publishers follow the same line of thinking.)
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Old August 18 2013, 06:34 PM   #145
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Re: common misconceptions about Voyager

^Isn't that how Hollywood execs thing. It worked last time so it'll work again this time.

Whilst with viewers it might be more a case we've already seen this show us something different.

But for some VOY might have been their first introduction to ST or even the world of Sci-Fi TV, whilst for some who had watched TOS, TNG, DSN and seen countless other Sci-Fi TV shows (or comination) might have differing view points.
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Old August 18 2013, 06:44 PM   #146
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Re: common misconceptions about Voyager

Brit wrote: View Post
DonIago wrote: View Post
Well, yes, in some regards. But not -just- unlucky.

Later entries in any franchise are almost always going to face more scrutiny than the earlier ones. I think that's generally understood.

To some degree, and not without reason, one might expect that as a franchise progresses the powers behind it will learn from prior mistakes and make an effort to avoid repeating them.
Actually that makes sense any where but Hollywood, there the powers that be will tell you that they want more of the same, just different. (Some book publishers follow the same line of thinking.)
The problem is that DS9, VOY and ENT all debuted into a different television landscapes. It was one that was more competitive for syndicated television (in part because of TNG's success), but also one in which the major studios were fighting to get space in network television. Cable's potential for first-run television was just being explored by the time Enterprise came on. Sure, it was understandable that the producers and studio execs would want "more of the same," but in context, it was the worst time to do so.
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Old August 18 2013, 09:14 PM   #147
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Re: common misconceptions about Voyager

It's honestly true if you follow Star Trek, TNG had decent story telling --- DS9 had ... --- Voyager had better story telling and by the time Enterprise season 4 came about --- it was honestly the best story telling in all of Trek history.

Its probably true that critics just got too critical of Star Trek =(.

I mean just TRY to compare to mediocre episodes of Voyager to mediocre episodes of TNG --- there is none. I won't refute great TNG is still great Trek, but TNG would objectively be a much better series today if you trimmed the fat and by fat I mean the mediocre episodes. Voyager's mediocre episodes, while still mediocre, have redeemable enough qualities that you tend to feel if the episode was better worked or was given more time or budget, it would have been a much better episode. That's just not the case with the mediocre TNG episodes and I think you're looking at the series with rose colored glasses if you think otherwise.

DS9 suffers from too much episodic design when the series really screamed "space opera", but beyond that, its far, far, far too easy to poke holes in the series. Its not like holes in TNG where you can forgive them because its obvious its a budget, time or concept evolution. I mean, take a recent topic discussed on the DS9 forums: Bashir becoming generically engineered OUT OF NO WHERE. Holy hanna is that a plot element that could have been evolved in fun ways over the years if they actually thought about it, instead, Siddig fairly pointed out, TPTB turned him into Data of DS9.
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Old August 19 2013, 12:11 AM   #148
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Re: common misconceptions about Voyager

teacake wrote: View Post
It doesn't work. I tried it with Harry and he just blushed and babbled at me.
Just dress up as Tom. He'll be all over you. Though will still find a way to screw it up.
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Old August 19 2013, 01:15 AM   #149
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Re: common misconceptions about Voyager

But I don't want to go to luaus and play with robots.
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Old August 19 2013, 03:16 AM   #150
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Re: common misconceptions about Voyager

Then go to Sandrine's and challenge him to a game of pool and tell him you like playing with balls.
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