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Old October 5 2013, 02:06 AM   #1
Data's Cat
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Tuvok amuses me

Because he doesn't suppress his emotions very well.

He gets impatient, frustrated, sarcastic, and sometimes even makes a joke!

Tuvok is pretty cool for a Vulcan.
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Old October 5 2013, 02:26 AM   #2
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Re: Tuvok amuses me

I love Tuvok because he is presented as a healthy, middle aged, family man, mainstream Vulcan. Since the Vulcan character arc is so readily about how tortured or dysfunctional they are Tuvok is a great change from that. I think most Vulcans show their irritations as you mention, but when it's T'Pol it's due to drugs and being a fail Vulcan according to her mother, when it's Spock it's hybridism. It's great we had a main character Vulcan who wasn't all about inner pain
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Old October 5 2013, 01:04 PM   #3
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Re: Tuvok amuses me

Data's Cat wrote: View Post
Because he doesn't suppress his emotions very well.

He gets impatient, frustrated, sarcastic, and sometimes even makes a joke!

Tuvok is pretty cool for a Vulcan.
Actually, Tuvok is probably next to Spock my favorite Vulcan character, and I think he is my favorite Voyager character. I have always been impressed with Tim Russ's portrayal of Tuvok and personally think he is among the best actors who have ever played a Vulcan.

Though he seemingly does express frustration, usually due to Neelix, I actually think he suppresses his emotion quite well when you compare it to instances where his emotional suppression was not there (he is a very intensely emotional being then). Being middle aged for a Vulcan, a family man, and a former starfleet instructor, he is indeed well-rounded and well adjusted and IS what he IS and is OKAY with it.

It is a good contrast from other Vulcans we've seen because he is content to be exactly as he is: IE Spock being half human and constantly trying to suppress that side (not content with who he is and always striving to a certain extent to be something he isn't), Sarek actually being pretty emotional (disappointed yet loves Spock, marries a human, yet to an extent, is in denial about how emotional he really is), T'pol was very emotional (she was conflicted about her feelings for Trip and her mothers' disappointment in her: rumor has it she was supposed to be revealed as a Vulcan\Romulan hybrid~ too bad that never was to be). Though Data was an android, I'll include him because he was Vulcan like, and essentially the Vulcan stand in for TNG, yet was the reverse of Spock: perfectly emotionless, yet trying to be emotional. Again, Data is conflicted and not content with his status.

But not Tuvok. He was arguably an ideal Vulcan, able to retain his logic among so many emotional beings, but balanced it with being an effective and intregal part of the crew, knowing when he could "bend" his Vulcan principles on emotion, without breaking them. I especially liked the dynamic with Neelix. I always got the sense that his seemingly annoyance with Neelix, was really Tuvok's way of balancing being logical, with in some ways being a foil for Neelix to express his fondness for him and to show the crew he wasn't some emotionless, unapproachable machine, yet retaining his logical principles. I especially liked when Neelix departed Voyager, as a final good bye and acknowledgement to Neelix, Tuvok knowing if he really danced, it would be illogical and unseemly for a Vulcan to do. Yet did make a slight gesture with his foot, which was all Neelix needed to see, and for Neelix, spoke volumes to the depth of feeling and gratitude Tuvok really did have for him (Neelix and Tuvok helped each other over the years), but was unable to show publically and still be a "proper" Vulcan.

In fact, when a Vulcan is in the midst of a sea of emotional beings, wouldn't logic dictate that a Vulcan must, at times, balance Vulcan stoicism and logic, with finding small ways of being approachable and even congenial, if for no other reason than the logic of being an effective leader, to foster trust among crew mates, and to be able to relate to them. I tend to think this is a lesson he must have learned as an instructor, having to find different ways to relate and motivate his cadets\students.

So, yeah, I agree: Tuvok is a pretty cool Vulcan.
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Old October 5 2013, 05:09 PM   #4
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Re: Tuvok amuses me

Tuvok's an interesting character. I'd say he's my favorite Vulcan, even he wouldn't make my top five list of favorite Trek characters. Spock I always thought was overrated, and T'Pol was more of a caricature than a character. Few of the guest of the week Vulcans save Sarek had any staying power at all.

One, he defies the cliche bowl cut hair -and- the notion that all Vulcans have to be scientists. Two, he was just an interesting character. His friendship with Janeway seemed legit and he interacted with the "emotionally-handicapped species" better than most Vulcans. Maybe he's smarter and came to the conclusion that emotional species might be insulted by such comments and interpret that as being a jerk and he'd work better with them if he just kept that to himself.

His tolerance with Neelix was a plus. I think Neelix is a jerk of the first order for many reasons, but for also how he treated Tuvok. The constant harassment, belittlement and ridicule for having the audacity to have a different set of values. It's no wonder when Tuvok wants to test if he can't control his homicidal urges the first thing he conjures up on the holodeck is Neelix. Despite seven years of being a jerk, Tuvok still goes out of his way to help the man in his last episode and even does that "dance" as a farewell gift.
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Old October 5 2013, 05:48 PM   #5
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Re: Tuvok amuses me

I like Tuvok, and I say he's the typical Vulcan. Believes in logic and rationality, but is not racist against folks who do not follow that path. I liked the tension between Tuvok and Annoylix. And later the chemistry between Tuvok and Catsuit of Nine, because both favored logic and got slightly annoyed by irrational humans.

Another Vulcan I consider typical is the guy from the baseball episode of DS9. Some people think he is racist, but he is only logical about the superiority of the Vulcan body and mind compared to the human body and mind. The way he coldly states these facts comes off as racist, but it's not. And like Tuvok, he does seem to like the interaction with humans, which is why he keeps that banter/competition with Sisko.

Enterprise and nuTrek screwed up the view on Vulcans, where they are depicted as racist, scheming irrational people. nuSpock is a whiney psychopath. Being torn between two worlds might be fine, but he is just an uncontrollable nutcase. And T'Pol and her sudden disgust with human smell? What the fuck were you smoking?
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Old October 5 2013, 06:23 PM   #6
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Re: Tuvok amuses me

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
. . .And T'Pol and her sudden disgust with human smell?
For some reason, this line made me imagine T'Pol sitting around during the famous campfire scene in Blazing Saddles, attempting to ignore the odors and sounds wafting through the air.
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Old October 5 2013, 06:55 PM   #7
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Re: Tuvok amuses me

teacock wrote: View Post
I love Tuvok because he is presented as a healthy, middle aged, family man, mainstream Vulcan. Since the Vulcan character arc is so readily about how tortured or dysfunctional they are Tuvok is a great change from that. I think most Vulcans show their irritations as you mention, but when it's T'Pol it's due to drugs and being a fail Vulcan according to her mother, when it's Spock it's hybridism. It's great we had a main character Vulcan who wasn't all about inner pain
Great post. I agree.

I find Tuvok...refreshing. He really is a normal Vulcan dude. Oh sure he is intelligent, talented etc. But he is normal. No drug/'Who am I?' problem like T'Pol. No "I look down on humans, even though I almost am one and I actually like them" sorta conflict like Spock.

Tuvok knows WHO he is and WHAT he is.

As for the OP:


Data's Cat wrote:
Because he doesn't suppress his emotions very well.
I disagree. I think he does it very well. One of the things I love most about Vulcans is that they are the KINGS of dry, sarcastic humour. T'pol, Spock, Tuvok....they can all make me laugh [as I love that type of humour].

Sarcasm and quips seems to come naturally to all Vulcans. I wouldn't say thats failing to control emotion as such.
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Old October 5 2013, 09:30 PM   #8
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Re: Tuvok amuses me

If you look at the 'evolution' of the Vulcans as they're depicted in the 22nd Century, the 23rd Century, and the 24th Century, it actually makes perfect sense for Tuvok to be the character that he is. One also has to take into account inividualization of personality into account with regards to Tuvok's character in relation to the other 24th Century Vulcans we saw.

Also, personally, I like the contrast that Tuvok presents in relation to Spock and the 22nd Century Vulcans we saw such as Soval and T'Pol.
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Old October 5 2013, 10:09 PM   #9
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Re: Tuvok amuses me

teacock wrote: View Post
I love Tuvok because he is presented as a healthy, middle aged, family man, mainstream Vulcan.
This is kind of how (in ways) I view the character of T'Pring, just a average person plucked at random out of Vulcan society, a normal person.


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Old October 6 2013, 12:00 AM   #10
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Re: Tuvok amuses me

T'Pring gets trashed for being clever and finding a perfect solution to free her from societal bonds yet still retain her place within that society.
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Old October 6 2013, 12:07 AM   #11
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Re: Tuvok amuses me

teacock wrote: View Post
T'Pring gets trashed for being clever and finding a perfect solution to free her from societal bonds yet still retain her place within that society.
Lutan tries to do the same thing in TNG: Code of Honor and gets the big from Picard & Company too.
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Old October 6 2013, 06:16 AM   #12
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Re: Tuvok amuses me

^^ "It was a maneuver worthy of a Romulan."
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Old October 6 2013, 06:39 AM   #13
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Re: Tuvok amuses me

Unspeakable wrote: View Post
teacock wrote: View Post
I love Tuvok because he is presented as a healthy, middle aged, family man, mainstream Vulcan.
This is kind of how (in ways) I view the character of T'Pring, just a average person plucked at random out of Vulcan society, a normal person.


T'Pring is a selfish bitch. I can't believe she's an "average" Vulcan.
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Old October 6 2013, 06:59 AM   #14
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Re: Tuvok amuses me

She's a woman who doesn't let traditions and family pressure take her down. Sure she could have just said, "I quit" and suffered whatever stigma and work/economic sanctions her society meted out. But instead she used the system that oppressed her to her own advantage, freeing herself from an unwanted marriage, gaining the man she did want and still playing by the rules. She's not selfish, she's a survivor.
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Old October 6 2013, 07:06 AM   #15
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Re: Tuvok amuses me

teacock wrote: View Post
She's a woman who doesn't let traditions and family pressure take her down. Sure she could have just said, "I quit" and suffered whatever stigma and work/economic sanctions her society meted out. But instead she used the system that oppressed her to her own advantage, freeing herself from an unwanted marriage, gaining the man she did want and still playing by the rules. She's not selfish, she's a survivor.
Considering that she was willing to let either her intended husband or his Captain DIE - she didn't give a damn which one did, just so SHE could have the man she wanted, to hell with doing the honorable thing and getting her family to un-arrange the marriage long before - yes, she's a selfish bitch.
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