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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old August 29 2013, 03:54 PM   #46
R. Star
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Re: IS the okuda timeline canon?

Maybe it was class of stardate xxxx78? Though that would be problematic too.
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Old August 30 2013, 12:21 AM   #47
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Re: IS the okuda timeline canon?

Thinking about it a little more, I wonder if the answer is much simpler. Maybe in D.C. Fontana's mind, the show took place exactly 400 years in the future (2387, four hundred years after "Farpoint" was written). Class of '78 would make perfect sense in that case.
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Old September 1 2013, 01:23 PM   #48
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Re: IS the okuda timeline canon?

So Data graduated yesterday, from Riker's point of view? That would certainly make his rank of Lieutenant Commander "honorary" like Riker suspects, undermining the point that Data supposedly is making.

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Old September 1 2013, 02:21 PM   #49
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Re: IS the okuda timeline canon?

Timo wrote: View Post
So Data graduated yesterday, from Riker's point of view? That would certainly make his rank of Lieutenant Commander "honorary" like Riker suspects, undermining the point that Data supposedly is making.

Timo Saloniemi
2378 to 2387 would be eleven years. At least in my neck of the woods.
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Old September 1 2013, 03:24 PM   #50
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Re: IS the okuda timeline canon?

^Your neck of the woods needs some math teachers, because that's 9 years....
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Old September 1 2013, 05:25 PM   #51
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Re: IS the okuda timeline canon?

The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
^Your neck of the woods needs some math teachers, because that's 9 years....


I'm glad you caught that because I sure in the hell wouldn't have!

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Old September 1 2013, 07:58 PM   #52
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Re: IS the okuda timeline canon?

To support your point, Riker's own rise to Commander was comparably short, perhaps shorter.
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Old September 1 2013, 09:43 PM   #53
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Re: IS the okuda timeline canon?

...Oops in any case, for me not seeing the 78/87 thing.

("Oops" is "Sorry" in Finnish, BTW.)

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Old September 1 2013, 09:58 PM   #54
Hober Mallow
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Re: IS the okuda timeline canon?

It's reassuring for me to see everyone here is as bad at math as I am.
The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
To support your point, Riker's own rise to Commander was comparably short, perhaps shorter.
And then he spent a couple of ice ages stuck at commander.
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Old September 1 2013, 10:47 PM   #55
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Re: IS the okuda timeline canon?

Tru dat! Peaked early, I guess.

Similar to how the warp drive worked, characters in TOS were promoted at the speed of plot. Geordi went up three ranks from Ensign to Lt. Commander in as many years (counting his backstory from the year before Season 1).
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Old September 3 2013, 09:30 PM   #56
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Re: IS the okuda timeline canon?

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
Both Kirk and Khan, humans of Earth, stated audibly in ST II / TWOK that they hadn't seen each other for 15 years. (IIRC there was still another reference in the longer version of the film).

Unfortunately these "15 years" were not reflected in the "Okuda Timeline" so the time figures of Kirk's era became debatable and unreliable.
Greg Cox addressed/fixed this onscreen discrepancy in his excellentnovel To Reign in Hell: The Exile of Khan Noonien Singh (Book 3 of the "Khan trilogy"), in that the "fifteen years" figure mentioned by Khan in the film are actually fifteen Ceti Alpha V-years, not Earth-years.

At the time The Wrath of Khan was produced, the perception of ST's timeline was far more fluid and less-established than it became in later years, so that figure was valid at the time, but later onscreen dating referents in episodes of TNG contradicted this (one canonical source versus another canonical source).

Cox's fix was elegant and works amazingly well, and appears in a fantastic story, to boot.
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Old September 3 2013, 09:40 PM   #57
Robert Comsol
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Re: IS the okuda timeline canon?

Leto_II wrote: View Post
Greg Cox addressed/fixed this onscreen discrepancy in his excellentnovel To Reign in Hell: The Exile of Khan Noonien Singh (Book 3 of the "Khan trilogy"), in that the "fifteen years" figure mentioned by Khan in the film are actually fifteen Ceti Alpha V-years, not Earth-years.
"Onscreen discrepancy" ?!?

Kirk is also a citizen of Earth and hasn't seen Khan for "15 years" (and in the extended version, IIRC, Dr. Marcus makes another "15 years" reference).

Obviously Mr. Okuda didn't pay attention or didn't care, it's as simple as that, and therefore his job to properly work these 15 years into his timeline somehow, if he ever chooses to correct his mistake.

Bob
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Old September 3 2013, 11:23 PM   #58
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Re: IS the okuda timeline canon?

Although bear in mind too that we're actually talking about something in the neighborhood of maybe 17 Earth-years or thereabouts -- if Kirk was simply rounding down instead of up, it still tracks as an impromptu, ballpark conversational-figure.
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Old September 4 2013, 10:56 AM   #59
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Re: IS the okuda timeline canon?

I have little doubt that Khan, who still considers himself to be the "king" of Earth, counted his days in exile (child's play with the help of his superior intellect) in solar days and solar years.

Also, Chekov didn't protest his "15 years" statement. Just this second an image popped up in my mind with Mr. Okuda taking Chekov's place and saying "Incorrect. It was only 12 years".

Khan: "Make that two [Ceti Eeels] for this character!"

And, for what it's worth, assuming they had intended 1.000 digits to equal one solar year, the difference between Stardate 3.143.3 ("Space Seed") and [1]8130.4 (ST II) is 14.99 years.

Bob
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Old September 4 2013, 01:03 PM   #60
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Re: IS the okuda timeline canon?

Stardates in ST:TMP don't follow such a pattern, nor do those in the later TOS movies. So it need not be worth much - but it may still have been intentional this rare once. Points for Meyer!

Anyway, fifteen years is certainly a figure in the category of "possibly rounded up or down" - anything ending with 5 or 0 meets those criteria. In contrast, none of the dialogue references fall in the category of "characters would feel obligated to correct an inaccuracy".

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