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Old August 12 2013, 02:34 PM   #31
Locutus of Bored
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Re: Pharmacutical Companies can kiss my white, hairy...

Carcazoid wrote: View Post
A lot of people will disagree, but I don't have time or energy to argue about this kind of stuff in a place where it ultimately won't make any difference.
Just out of curiosity, are you being held hostage and forced to post exaggerated, inaccurate, and smugly superior without any justification for being so comments on this forum against your will? Because if not, then you should drop the multiple variations on the above disclaimer which you add to way too many of your posts. Though you at least get credit for this one time not arrogantly saying that your opinion is inherently correct just because you are older, a customer, a small business owner, what have you.

If you don't have the time, energy, inclination, or ability to ever back up your baseless assertions with facts, then feel free not to make them in the first place. But if you insist on gracing us lowly peasants with your infinite wisdom on a regular basis, then you better find out how message boards work and be willing to argue your point with facts and links to reputable sources or else it just comes across as trolling to provoke a negative reaction. And it will be warned as such if you do it again, because I've already given you verbal admonitions about this multiple times in the past, and I believe other mods have cautioned you about it when you do it in their forums as well. Stop it.
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Old August 12 2013, 03:59 PM   #32
Trekker4747
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Re: Pharmacutical Companies can kiss my white, hairy...

Mr Awe wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Trekker4747 wrote: View Post

Yeah, chemical imbalances in the brain can just be easy to treat by will power.
Who said anything about easy?
Some chemical imbalances are impossible to treat with medicines. I know because some in my family have had these problems. True, some Doctors may prescribe them too easily but in many cases, they are crucial. I've seen them work and really turn people around.

Mr Awe
Indeed. Depression isn't "I'm sad today because my dog died, I need medication!" it's about "I have a chemical imbalance in my brain that needs to be treated and corrected."
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Old August 12 2013, 04:14 PM   #33
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Re: Pharmacutical Companies can kiss my white, hairy...

^Some people still suffer from the ignorant notion that the brain is not part of the body.
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Old August 12 2013, 04:15 PM   #34
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Re: Pharmacutical Companies can kiss my white, hairy...

Big pharma is going to squeeze as much cash as possible out of the consumer for any given drug before it goes generic.

Several allergy meds I've taken, for example, used to cost me hundreds for a ninety day supply. One by one they went generic or OTC and they run about a third of the cost (at most).
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Old August 12 2013, 04:38 PM   #35
ITL
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Re: Pharmacutical Companies can kiss my white, hairy...

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
Mr Awe wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Who said anything about easy?
Some chemical imbalances are impossible to treat with medicines. I know because some in my family have had these problems. True, some Doctors may prescribe them too easily but in many cases, they are crucial. I've seen them work and really turn people around.

Mr Awe
Indeed. Depression isn't "I'm sad today because my dog died, I need medication!" it's about "I have a chemical imbalance in my brain that needs to be treated and corrected."
thestrangequark wrote: View Post
^Some people still suffer from the ignorant notion that the brain is not part of the body.
As Stephen Fry said:

“If you know someone who’s depressed, please resolve never to ask them why. Depression isn’t a straightforward response to a bad situation; depression just is, like the weather.

Try to understand the blackness, lethargy, hopelessness, and loneliness they’re going through. Be there for them when they come through the other side. It’s hard to be a friend to someone who’s depressed, but it is one of the kindest, noblest, and best things you will ever do.”
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Old August 12 2013, 08:05 PM   #36
Mr Awe
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Re: Pharmacutical Companies can kiss my white, hairy...

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
Mr Awe wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Who said anything about easy?
Some chemical imbalances are impossible to treat with medicines. I know because some in my family have had these problems. True, some Doctors may prescribe them too easily but in many cases, they are crucial. I've seen them work and really turn people around.

Mr Awe
Indeed. Depression isn't "I'm sad today because my dog died, I need medication!" it's about "I have a chemical imbalance in my brain that needs to be treated and corrected."
Definitely. And, I meant to write, "Some chemical imbalances are impossible to treat *without* medicines."

Mr Awe
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Old August 12 2013, 08:58 PM   #37
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Re: Pharmacutical Companies can kiss my white, hairy...

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
ASS!

New prescription the doctor put me on. Cost of a refill? $75!

"But, Trekker," you say "don't you have insurance?"

Yes. That's the co-pay WITH insurance! Without insurance the pills cost almost $800.
Pretty much my experience exactly, and that with just *one* of my son's three prescriptions. Actually, for some weird reason, we sometimes have to pay about $170 for a month's supply, even after insurance.

This particular Rx is for Abilify, and my son takes it in order to live a more normal life with his Aspergers. Without it, his emotions pretty much run rampant, and he can go from happy to screaming-his-head-off angry in a second, which doesn't bode well for a school environment.

And of course, the psychiatrist he has to see in order to get the Rx doesn't take insurance of any kind, so those visits come out of pocket. It's difficult enough finding one that sees children, pretty much impossible to find one that still takes insurance. After all the health care changes over the last few years, most of not all of the psychiatrists, psychologists, and other mental health professionals in the area have stopped taking insurance.

And as a direct result of all this (my son's emotional rollercoaster and the related costs), my wife has had to go back to a Rx for antidepressants, which are also a huge chunk of change. With the recent health care changes which were supposed to make it affordable for more people, our personal cost has exponentially skyrocketed over the last few years. Not only have more doctors refused to take any insurance, but our copays and deductibles have shot up like crazy (gone up 150% and >~1000%, respectively), and that's with my company's fairly decent coverage. And the cost of our Rx isn't helping.



.... Sorry about the rant. Sometimes need to vent about that.

But as for my son, we'll do what we have to for him to live a good, mostly normal life, no matter what the cost.
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Old August 12 2013, 09:06 PM   #38
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Re: Pharmacutical Companies can kiss my white, hairy...

Ar-Pharazon wrote: View Post
^ Is that a drug company that was just spun off, or one of the other ones?
GSK. He hates it there. They recently closed the building where my Dad works, moved everyone to Upper Providence, adopted that ridiculous policy where you have no permanent cubicle/office but get one on a first-come first-served basis every day - it's a blatant attempt to get the people who commute from NJ or DE to quit.
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Old August 12 2013, 09:45 PM   #39
Trekker4747
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Re: Pharmacutical Companies can kiss my white, hairy...

B.J. wrote: View Post
Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
ASS!

New prescription the doctor put me on. Cost of a refill? $75!

"But, Trekker," you say "don't you have insurance?"

Yes. That's the co-pay WITH insurance! Without insurance the pills cost almost $800.
Pretty much my experience exactly, and that with just *one* of my son's three prescriptions. Actually, for some weird reason, we sometimes have to pay about $170 for a month's supply, even after insurance.

This particular Rx is for Abilify, and my son takes it in order to live a more normal life with his Aspergers. Without it, his emotions pretty much run rampant, and he can go from happy to screaming-his-head-off angry in a second, which doesn't bode well for a school environment.

And of course, the psychiatrist he has to see in order to get the Rx doesn't take insurance of any kind, so those visits come out of pocket. It's difficult enough finding one that sees children, pretty much impossible to find one that still takes insurance. After all the health care changes over the last few years, most of not all of the psychiatrists, psychologists, and other mental health professionals in the area have stopped taking insurance.

And as a direct result of all this (my son's emotional rollercoaster and the related costs), my wife has had to go back to a Rx for antidepressants, which are also a huge chunk of change. With the recent health care changes which were supposed to make it affordable for more people, our personal cost has exponentially skyrocketed over the last few years. Not only have more doctors refused to take any insurance, but our copays and deductibles have shot up like crazy (gone up 150% and >~1000%, respectively), and that's with my company's fairly decent coverage. And the cost of our Rx isn't helping.



.... Sorry about the rant. Sometimes need to vent about that.

But as for my son, we'll do what we have to for him to live a good, mostly normal life, no matter what the cost.
As it turns out Abilify is the drug I'm having trouble with.
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Old August 12 2013, 09:51 PM   #40
B.J.
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Re: Pharmacutical Companies can kiss my white, hairy...

^ Kinda figured that, what with the numbers being spot-on to my experience. Yeah, I feel your pain there (in the wallet, that is).
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Old August 12 2013, 09:54 PM   #41
Ar-Pharazon
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Re: Pharmacutical Companies can kiss my white, hairy...

mimic wrote: View Post
Ar-Pharazon wrote: View Post
^ Is that a drug company that was just spun off, or one of the other ones?
GSK. He hates it there. They recently closed the building where my Dad works, moved everyone to Upper Providence, adopted that ridiculous policy where you have no permanent cubicle/office but get one on a first-come first-served basis every day - it's a blatant attempt to get the people who commute from NJ or DE to quit.
Wow, someplace run by bigger idiots than where I work.
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Old August 12 2013, 10:03 PM   #42
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Re: Pharmacutical Companies can kiss my white, hairy...

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
Speaking of which, I wonder if my $80 would have been better spent if I just went downtown, bought a couple pounds of marijuana, got a blow-job from a hooker and then used what was left over to treat myself to dinner at the city's top-rated steak house?
80 bucks goes a fucking long way where you're from.
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Old August 13 2013, 02:42 PM   #43
the 4th Hanson bro
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Re: Pharmacutical Companies can kiss my white, hairy...

Pingfah wrote: View Post
Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
Speaking of which, I wonder if my $80 would have been better spent if I just went downtown, bought a couple pounds of marijuana, got a blow-job from a hooker and then used what was left over to treat myself to dinner at the city's top-rated steak house?
80 bucks goes a fucking long way where you're from.
Steak and whores are cheap in the heartland.
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Old August 13 2013, 04:02 PM   #44
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Re: Pharmacutical Companies can kiss my white, hairy...

They'd need to be paying you to have enough left for 2 pounds of weed. That would set most people back at least $5000.
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Old August 13 2013, 08:13 PM   #45
Robert Maxwell
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Re: Pharmacutical Companies can kiss my white, hairy...

I don't consider drug company profits defensible on the level at which they currently exist. In my opinion, the public interest should trump patent considerations. Let drug companies make a profit, but constrain it to be relative to the actual production and R&D costs of the drug, rather than permit the monopolistic pricing that currently exists.

Drug pricing is itself a complex maze of regulation and backroom dealing in which manufacturers, insurers, pharmacies, and regulators all try to gain the advantage. Rebates, formulary schedules, Medicare/Medicaid pricing, insurance networks, 340B, etc. etc. This is the industry I work in, and I can tell you it's basically insane. Patients consistently get the short end of the stick because every other involved party is trying to extract a few more pennies (or more) from the others. There aren't even reliable list prices for drugs, as that information is distributed by a handful of companies who collect market pricing data and then publish "standard" prices which may not be based on anything substantial--or which may, in fact, be the result of collusion with drug manufacturers, something which came to light a few years ago when drug wholesaler McKesson was found to be fixing prices via First Databank. The end result was forbidding FDB from publishing any more AWP statistics, though other companies can still publish that data.

While not by design, the lack of price transparency disincentivizes patients from shopping around for the best price. Maybe two pharmacies sell that brand drug at the same price, or maybe they don't. Maybe one of them is in your insurer's network and offers you a better copay, even if the base price is higher. What if there are a dozen pharmacies near you? Are you going to call them all and check the prices for every drug, with and without your insurance? There is nowhere the lay person can go and find out if the price you're quoted is fair or reflects the market, since so-called market prices are proprietary and you generally have to buy an expensive subscription to get access to such info.

The healthcare industry as a whole is rife with rent-seeking behavior, the pharmaceutical industry is perhaps just the biggest offender.

I would point out that your local pharmacy, however, is not responsible for these problems, and likely isn't making a killing off of drugs. They're a bit like gas stations: they don't make much from the main attraction (prescription drugs/gas), but there's a big markup on everything else, and that's where the profit comes from. Even then, most independent pharmacies are struggling. CVS is so successful because they also run a massive pharmacy benefit management business, which lets them get a nice cut of money on the back end. Tellingly, Walgreens has no such business, and shows much less revenue and profit. Most other pharmacies are not chains and survive pretty much at the mercy of whatever pharmacy network they've signed onto (such as CVS/Caremark.) They have little or no leverage to negotiate prices.
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