RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 135,879
Posts: 5,222,099
Members: 24,230
Currently online: 729
Newest member: zombie1701

TrekToday headlines

Takei To Receive Award
By: T'Bonz on Apr 23

Yelchin In New Comedy
By: T'Bonz on Apr 23

U.S. Rights For Pegg Comedy Secured
By: T'Bonz on Apr 23

Shatner: Aging and Work
By: T'Bonz on Apr 23

Kurtzman And Orci Go Solo
By: T'Bonz on Apr 22

Star Trek #32 Preview
By: T'Bonz on Apr 22

Voyager Bridge Via The Oculus Rift
By: T'Bonz on Apr 21

Miles Away Glyph Award Nominations
By: T'Bonz on Apr 21

Q Meets NuTrek Crew
By: T'Bonz on Apr 18

Pine In Talks For Drama
By: T'Bonz on Apr 18


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Lounges & General Chat > Miscellaneous

Miscellaneous Discussion of non-Trek topics.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old August 11 2013, 03:01 AM   #16
J. Allen
Squeaky Clean
 
J. Allen's Avatar
 
Location: United States
Send a message via ICQ to J. Allen Send a message via AIM to J. Allen Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to J. Allen Send a message via Yahoo to J. Allen
Re: Pharmacutical Companies can kiss my white, hairy...

1001001 wrote: View Post
The whole "R&D cost" thing is complete bullshit, made up by the drug companies to justify their outrageous prices and marketing tactics.

Marcia Angell, MD, former editor-in-chief of the New England Journal of Medicine, wrote a scathing book called The Truth About the Drug Companies.

"But while the rhetoric is stirring, it has very little to do with reality. First, research and development (R&D) is a relatively small part of the budgets of the big drug companies—dwarfed by their vast expenditures on marketing and administration, and smaller even than profits. In fact, year after year, for over two decades, this industry has been far and away the most profitable in the United States. (In 2003, for the first time, the industry lost its first-place position, coming in third, behind “mining, crude oil production,” and “commercial banks.”) The prices drug companies charge have little relationship to the costs of making the drugs and could be cut dramatically without coming anywhere close to threatening R&D."

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/arch...gination=false

She documents the business practices and questionable science with great precision and citation.

Big Pharma can, indeed, kiss my white, hairy ass too.
That is obscene (not your ass, the Pharma stuff)!
__________________
:: :: ::
Visit Brony Kingdom, where all of your wildest dreams will come true.
:: :: ::

Rainbow Dash Buys A Ford Pinto, A Short Story by LotusTeaDragon
J. Allen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 11 2013, 05:33 AM   #17
propita
Rear Admiral
 
Location: fresno, ca, us
Re: Pharmacutical Companies can kiss my white, hairy...

Peach Wookiee wrote: View Post
I had a medicine I was on last year that was 240 dollars! That was with insurance....
ETA: If I'd gotten the pills, it wouldn't have cost so much, but the Carafate suspension took effect much, much quicker. So that's why my gastroenterologist prescribed it.
Carafate?!

I was give those pills twice for extreme heartburn 20 years ago. Both times had the same (previously unknown) side effect: it turned my shit green. As in green as a new leaf in spring. I hadn't had grape juice or anything that would do that, and it only happened the two periods I took that med. I laugh now, but it scared me, well not shitless, but it scared me.

I asked Hubby, since he's a pharmacist, I figured he'd know something. He said pharma companies work on, say 100 meds and only 2 or 3 go through. So they ARE recouping for all those no-gos...but that they recoup that in a year or so. So they're squeezing everyone for money.
propita is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 11 2013, 07:40 AM   #18
Peach Wookiee
Cuddly Mod of Doom
 
Peach Wookiee's Avatar
 
Location: Peach Wookiee
Re: Pharmacutical Companies can kiss my white, hairy...

Green poo? Wow. That did not happen to me. But that Carafate suspension was wonderful. My stomach stopped burning.
Peach Wookiee is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 11 2013, 07:58 AM   #19
R. Star
Rear Admiral
 
R. Star's Avatar
 
Location: Shangri-La
Re: Pharmacutical Companies can kiss my white, hairy...

Yeah! These companies are pure evil. How dare they demand to make a profit from the services they provide?! We should make that illegal. Completely unethical to demand compensation for a service provided. Oh wait... then they'll all go out of business and where will you get your product then? Oops.
__________________
"I was never a Star Trek fan." J.J. Abrams
R. Star is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 11 2013, 11:07 AM   #20
Trekker4747
Fleet Admiral
 
Trekker4747's Avatar
 
Location: Kansas City
Re: Pharmacutical Companies can kiss my white, hairy...

R. Star wrote: View Post
Yeah! These companies are pure evil. How dare they demand to make a profit from the services they provide?! We should make that illegal. Completely unethical to demand compensation for a service provided. Oh wait... then they'll all go out of business and where will you get your product then? Oops.
$800 (the cost of this prescription without insurance) for 30 tiny little pills isn't profit for services provided. It's profits plus a trip to the Cayman islands.
__________________
Just because it's futuristic doesn't mean it's practical.
Trekker4747 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 11 2013, 11:25 AM   #21
JarodRussell
Vice Admiral
 
JarodRussell's Avatar
 
Re: Pharmacutical Companies can kiss my white, hairy...

One of the many reasons I don't buy into medical treatment of psychological problems.

Oh you're depressed because your dog died? Take that pill. Only costs $1000.

Oh you're suffering from anxiety having to talk to women? Here's a pill for you. $500.


I don't deny that there are indeed a lot of cases where it's necessary, but in my opinion, doctors are way too trigger happy with their prescription pad.
__________________
lol
l
/\
JarodRussell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 11 2013, 11:49 AM   #22
Trekker4747
Fleet Admiral
 
Trekker4747's Avatar
 
Location: Kansas City
Re: Pharmacutical Companies can kiss my white, hairy...

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
One of the many reasons I don't buy into medical treatment of psychological problems.

Oh you're depressed because your dog died? Take that pill. Only costs $1000.

Oh you're suffering from anxiety having to talk to women? Here's a pill for you. $500.


I don't deny that there are indeed a lot of cases where it's necessary, but in my opinion, doctors are way too trigger happy with their prescription pad.
Yeah, chemical imbalances in the brain can just be easy to treat by will power.
__________________
Just because it's futuristic doesn't mean it's practical.
Trekker4747 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 11 2013, 12:06 PM   #23
JarodRussell
Vice Admiral
 
JarodRussell's Avatar
 
Re: Pharmacutical Companies can kiss my white, hairy...

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
One of the many reasons I don't buy into medical treatment of psychological problems.

Oh you're depressed because your dog died? Take that pill. Only costs $1000.

Oh you're suffering from anxiety having to talk to women? Here's a pill for you. $500.


I don't deny that there are indeed a lot of cases where it's necessary, but in my opinion, doctors are way too trigger happy with their prescription pad.
Yeah, chemical imbalances in the brain can just be easy to treat by will power.
Who said anything about easy?
__________________
lol
l
/\
JarodRussell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 11 2013, 02:56 PM   #24
1001001
Putting the F-U Back in FUN!
 
1001001's Avatar
 
Location: People's Gaypublic of Drugafornia
Re: Pharmacutical Companies can kiss my white, hairy...

R. Star wrote: View Post
Yeah! These companies are pure evil. How dare they demand to make a profit from the services they provide?! We should make that illegal. Completely unethical to demand compensation for a service provided. Oh wait... then they'll all go out of business and where will you get your product then? Oops.
From a Frontline interview with Marcia Angell:

[What is] the profitability of this industry, compared to other American industries?

Numero uno. The pharmaceutical industry is stunningly, staggeringly profitable. The 10 drug companies on the Fortune 500 list last year took in net profits of 18.5 percent on sales. That's 18.5 percent. That is stunning. The median for the other industries on the Fortune 500 list was a little over 3 percent, 3.3 percent of sales. This has been the case for the last 20 years; this is not just a fluke of last year. Year after year after year, the pharmaceutical industry has led all other industries in profits. ...

The drug companies make the case that their prices are so high, and that total expenditures are so high, because their R&D costs are very high, as though they were just eking out, just barely managing to survive. But what we can see is that their profits are very much higher than their R&D costs, and therefore they could spend more on R&D if they wanted, and still have plenty of profits left over.

They are numero uno in R&D as well, aren't they?

Their R&D costs are very high, in absolute terms. But in relative terms, they're quite small, that is, relative to their other expenditures and to their profits. The drug companies spend on average, by their own figures, last year, 15 percent to 17 percent on R&D. That's a lot of money. There's no question that that's a lot of money. But their profits are higher. Their profits are 18.5 percent. That's higher than their R&D.

What's really interesting is what they spend on marketing and administration, by their own figures, on average 35 percent. That's over twice as much as what they spend on R&D. So if they point to their R&D costs as some sort of justification for the high prices, what on earth can they say about their marketing costs, which are over twice that much?

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...ws/angell.html

So as I said, the "High R&D Cost" argument is a flat-out lie.

More importantly, it's not like their selling soda or private jets. This is life saving medicine we're talking about. Something people need.

The government has given them a favorable regulatory environment, subsidies, and access to public university facilities and research. The public good should come into play somewhere here, don't you think?
__________________
“There is a cult of ignorance in the United States...The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge'.” - Isaac Asimov
1001001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 11 2013, 03:18 PM   #25
Mr. Laser Beam
Fleet Admiral
 
Mr. Laser Beam's Avatar
 
Location: The visitor's bullpen
View Mr. Laser Beam's Twitter Profile
Re: Pharmacutical Companies can kiss my white, hairy...

Trekker, maybe you should get a new drug. One that won't make you sick. One that won't make you crash your car or make you feel three feet thick.
__________________
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
Mr. Laser Beam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 11 2013, 08:50 PM   #26
publiusr
Commodore
 
Re: Pharmacutical Companies can kiss my white, hairy...

This is why we need both wage and price controls.

Now wait, the libertarians say, "that 'distorts' the market, and, and they spend lots of money on R&D...and, and."

Let's debunk this:

First of all, remember the Wal Mart price drop (after my parents passed away, sadly)?

A lot of their pills cost four dollars a bottle.

This is because patents ran out. Now it doesn't really matter on a global scale whether a company loses a patent, or has to sell for 4 bucks a bottle due to regulation.

if they can afford to eat one profit loss, they can eat the other just as well.

Now companies won't punish folks over patent losses, but actively try to hurt folks after regulation. What a lot of companies do is that--if they get regulated, they pass things along for spite, then tell us to hate regulation.

This is the wife-beating arguement.

If a domestic abuser hits his wife, and she calls the cops (gov't) and he takes it badly, and then beats her worse when he gets out to "teach her a lesson." is that in any way the cops fault for trying to protect her? No, of course not. But that's the arguement the Ayn Rand types make.

Now in order to protect folks, you may have to make the laws quite wordy. Now they will call this big gov't. But contract law is rather complex too, and Alabama's State Consitution is highly centralized (like libertarians say is bad) but being a Jim Crow era monstrosity, the rich keep it around since it nixes the will of the people to tax big timber barons in my State.

So here is how you stop the rip offs.

You impose price controls to where they can't rob you with $800 pills. There are wage controls to where they cannot take it out on the workers.

Now as for their claims about this hurting R&D--here is a way around that: Libertarians always go on and on about competition, right? So you have Big Pharma compete for a tax write off to stockholders for whatever company spends the highest percentage on R&D.

So they can't gouge you, the production line, or alienate the stockholders.

The result?

The bloody CEOs have to eat it for a change.
publiusr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 12 2013, 12:28 AM   #27
propita
Rear Admiral
 
Location: fresno, ca, us
Re: Pharmacutical Companies can kiss my white, hairy...

About generic v, brand...

I was on generic for my thyroid. Mistake. Evidently consistency controls on generics aren't so good; those for brand have problems, too, but still have much greater consistency within a batch and batch to batch. On generic, dosage could fluctuate as much as 50% from the least concentrated pill to most. With brand, it would be, I think, less than half that. Kind of important when trying to regulate metabolism.
propita is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 12 2013, 12:05 PM   #28
mimic
Rear Admiral
 
mimic's Avatar
 
Location: Virginia
Re: Pharmacutical Companies can kiss my white, hairy...

My Dad works in R&D for a drug company. They are constantly laying off people - I don't know how many rounds he's survived now, but it's been a lot.
__________________
"Freeze Ray. Tell your friends." - Dr. Horrible

"And since I do not go into nuclear reactor cores I am free to trouble my brain over artificial sweeteners." - Goji
mimic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 12 2013, 01:16 PM   #29
Ar-Pharazon
Rear Admiral
 
Ar-Pharazon's Avatar
 
Re: Pharmacutical Companies can kiss my white, hairy...

^ Is that a drug company that was just spun off, or one of the other ones?
__________________
Rimmer, on what period of history to live in-
“Well, It’d be the 19th century for me, one of Napoleon’s marshals.
The chance to march across Europe with the greatest general of all time and kill Belgians” - (White Hole).
Ar-Pharazon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 12 2013, 02:01 PM   #30
Mr Awe
Rear Admiral
 
Re: Pharmacutical Companies can kiss my white, hairy...

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
One of the many reasons I don't buy into medical treatment of psychological problems.

Oh you're depressed because your dog died? Take that pill. Only costs $1000.

Oh you're suffering from anxiety having to talk to women? Here's a pill for you. $500.


I don't deny that there are indeed a lot of cases where it's necessary, but in my opinion, doctors are way too trigger happy with their prescription pad.
Yeah, chemical imbalances in the brain can just be easy to treat by will power.
Who said anything about easy?
Some chemical imbalances are impossible to treat with medicines. I know because some in my family have had these problems. True, some Doctors may prescribe them too easily but in many cases, they are crucial. I've seen them work and really turn people around.

Mr Awe
Mr Awe is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:14 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.