RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 138,397
Posts: 5,358,516
Members: 24,627
Currently online: 483
Newest member: space2050

TrekToday headlines

Star Trek: Prelude to Axanar Online Debut
By: T'Bonz on Jul 31

Warp 5.0: Trek Toward Sci-Fi’s Golden Anniversary
By: T'Bonz on Jul 31

Takei To Host Pittsburgh Symphony PNC Pops’ Sci-Fi Spectacular
By: T'Bonz on Jul 31

Kurtzman In Mummy Talks
By: T'Bonz on Jul 31

The Gene Roddenberry Project Kickstarter
By: T'Bonz on Jul 30

Moore: No Deep Space Nine Regrets
By: T'Bonz on Jul 30

Pegg Star Wars Rumor
By: T'Bonz on Jul 30

Borg Cube Fridge
By: T'Bonz on Jul 29

Free Enterprise Kickstarter
By: T'Bonz on Jul 29

Siddig To Join Game Of Thrones
By: T'Bonz on Jul 29


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Tech

Trek Tech Pass me the quantum flux regulator, will you?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 16 2013, 12:52 AM   #226
Praetor
Vice Admiral
 
Praetor's Avatar
 
Location: The fine line between continuity and fanwank.
Re: Oberth Class – the missing link between Enterprise and Reliant

Isn't it also interesting how old and worn and, well, kinda burned it looks? Very engine compartment-y.
__________________
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross; but it's not for the timid." - Q
Praetor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 16 2013, 01:30 AM   #227
wildstar
Lieutenant Commander
 
Re: Oberth Class – the missing link between Enterprise and Reliant

Manticore wrote: View Post
It almost looks like twin deflection crystals (or warp field stabilizers if you accept the ENT retcon )
That was my thought too. One of my additions to the SD versions of the Oberth deck plans. I'm keeping them as that for my revised version that I'm currently working on:
http://www.timpalgut.com/oberthdeflectorcrystals.jpg
__________________
My homepage: http://www.timpalgut.com
My IMDB: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0657651/
wildstar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 16 2013, 10:05 AM   #228
Robert Comsol
Commodore
 
Robert Comsol's Avatar
 
Location: shore leave in La Baule, France
Re: Oberth Class – the missing link between Enterprise and Reliant

Of course, I'm welcoming suggestions that the Grissom might have been intended to show us a pre-TOS Federation vessel design, but we have the same alignment of those two "thingies" on the saucer hull of the Excelsior from the same movie which are probably not warp field stabilizers.

I think we are looking at two fusion reactors, one with a clockwise and one with a counter-clockwise nuclear fusion spin and both combine their plasma exhaust towards a central exhaust nozzle which we see at the stern of the slab.

Bob
__________________
"The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth" Jean-Luc Picard
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
Robert Comsol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 16 2013, 04:00 PM   #229
Praetor
Vice Admiral
 
Praetor's Avatar
 
Location: The fine line between continuity and fanwank.
Re: Oberth Class – the missing link between Enterprise and Reliant

Actually, in TSFS, the Excelsior just had one thingie, that looked a lot like the one on the Enterprise. The switch to two smaller ones might have been (and for my money, is) a downgrade of sorts.

I used to subscribe to the warp field stabilizer theory, but I don't know that it holds water anymore. I once posited that the crystal on the NX-01 warp field stabilizer actually wasn't the stabilizer at all, but a crystal for converting warp plasma for those impulse rockets at the back.

Also, Mr. Probert apparently refers to the one on his Ambassador as the fusion reactor, so it's possible his opinion on what that is has changed over the years? A fusion reactor might make the most sense, especially given the toroid shape.
__________________
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross; but it's not for the timid." - Q
Praetor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 17 2013, 06:10 AM   #230
Workbee
Commander
 
Re: Oberth Class – the missing link between Enterprise and Reliant

Maurice wrote: View Post
blssdwlf wrote: View Post
Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
The original VFX model (Grissom) had an overall length of 120 meters according to its creators. That it was "upscaled" for TNG is the logical conclusion of cross-sections established during TNG.
But even if we approached the size in the Thermian way, than this would be at least proof it was "downscaled".
While watching "The Naked Now" I noticed this interesting scaling bit. The Tchaikovsky(sp) is behind the E-D in this shot so that makes this particular TNG Grissom fairly big. I wonder if the TNG New FX version did the same thing?

The remastered shot is pretty close in terms of scale.
I like that they removed the overlap... preserves the scaling of the shot, but allows us to rationalize perspective effects to adjust the scale as needed.
Workbee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 17 2013, 11:52 AM   #231
Robert Comsol
Commodore
 
Robert Comsol's Avatar
 
Location: shore leave in La Baule, France
Re: Oberth Class – the missing link between Enterprise and Reliant

Sorry, they did not as I tried to illustrate by providing this link to the TNG footage in post # 213.

Bob
__________________
"The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth" Jean-Luc Picard
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
Robert Comsol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 18 2013, 11:55 PM   #232
Workbee
Commander
 
Re: Oberth Class – the missing link between Enterprise and Reliant

Rats!
Workbee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 27 2014, 04:37 PM   #233
Robert Comsol
Commodore
 
Robert Comsol's Avatar
 
Location: shore leave in La Baule, France
Re: Oberth Class – the missing link between Enterprise and Reliant

A little observation: When Geordi examines the interiors of the Tsiolkovsky we can notice one of these Burke chairs, last time seen in TOS!

I couldn't say whether the set decorators were asked to feature a Burke chair to suggest an "older" Starfleet vessel or whether one of the crew members just loved "old stuff", but I felt that little detail to be worth mentioning.

Another observation, inspired by a TMP design vs. TOS design debate, which hadn't been mentioned yet, is a characteristic of late 23rd Federation starships the Grissom lacked: the patchwork style Aztec pattering the refit Enterprise, Reliant and Excelsior featured.

Bob
__________________
"The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth" Jean-Luc Picard
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
Robert Comsol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 30 2014, 10:57 AM   #234
Dukhat
Commodore
 
Dukhat's Avatar
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
Re: Oberth Class – the missing link between Enterprise and Reliant

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
I couldn't say whether the set decorators were asked to feature a Burke chair to suggest an "older" Starfleet vessel or whether one of the crew members just loved "old stuff", but I felt that little detail to be worth mentioning.
It was probably just leftover set decoration that they used for the scene without much thought given to it. I mean, it's a chair.

However, on the subject of chairs, the chairs seen on the bridge are clearly TMP-era, even though Okuda's plaque indicated that the ship was launched only a year before the Enterprise-D. So clearly there was some disconnect there.

Another observation, inspired by a TMP design vs. TOS design debate, which hadn't been mentioned yet, is a characteristic of late 23rd Federation starships the Grissom lacked: the patchwork style Aztec pattering the refit Enterprise, Reliant and Excelsior featured.
No offense, but that's pretty flimsy evidence to support the theory that the Oberth class is older than the TOS Constitution class.
__________________
“Don’t believe everything you read on the internet.”
– Benjamin Franklin
Dukhat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 30 2014, 02:48 PM   #235
Robert Comsol
Commodore
 
Robert Comsol's Avatar
 
Location: shore leave in La Baule, France
Re: Oberth Class – the missing link between Enterprise and Reliant

Well, the Aztec pattering looks like the trademark of a late 23rd Century Federation ship, but Grissom didn't have it.

Since we know that the TOS Enterprise didn't feature this kind of Aztec pattering, it's fair to assume that the Oberth Class is a vessel from the TOS or pre-TOS era.

Bob
__________________
"The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth" Jean-Luc Picard
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
Robert Comsol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 30 2014, 08:38 PM   #236
Dukhat
Commodore
 
Dukhat's Avatar
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
Re: Oberth Class – the missing link between Enterprise and Reliant

Yes, that's what you said before. Other than your opinion, I'm still not sure how that's any evidence that the ship is older.

Plus, if we take the Kelvin and her pre-TOS sister ships into account, the Oberth looks nothing like them either, and they should be her contemporaries, registry-wise.
__________________
“Don’t believe everything you read on the internet.”
– Benjamin Franklin

Last edited by Dukhat; January 30 2014 at 09:50 PM.
Dukhat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 30 2014, 09:50 PM   #237
King Daniel Into Darkness
Admiral
 
King Daniel Into Darkness's Avatar
 
Location: England again
Re: Oberth Class – the missing link between Enterprise and Reliant

According to Shane Johnson in Mr. Scott's Guide to the Enterprise, the only reason the TOS Enterprise didn't have aztecing was because Starfleet used to paint their ships. And who's to say they don't still paint some newer models of ship, like the Oberth-class?
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
King Daniel Into Darkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 30 2014, 11:03 PM   #238
Robert Comsol
Commodore
 
Robert Comsol's Avatar
 
Location: shore leave in La Baule, France
Re: Oberth Class – the missing link between Enterprise and Reliant

Dukhat wrote: View Post
Yes, that's what you said before. Other than your opinion, I'm still not sure how that's any evidence that the ship is older.
It may not be evidence but it's something worth considering in the context of the debate. Put simply, assume it's a ship from the TOS or pre-TOS era there will be no questions regarding her hull. Assuming it's a ship from the TMP or post-TMP era those questions do come up.

Dukhat wrote: View Post
Plus, if we take the Kelvin and her pre-TOS sister ships into account, the Oberth looks nothing like them either, and they should be her contemporaries, registry-wise.
I wasn't aware that ships of a same period have to look alike.
Regarding the Enterprise-C I just suggested that maybe we should make a distinction between different Star Trek "realities" and you are doing the exact opposite. That could explain a thing or two.

@ King Daniel

What would be the purpose of such paint? I mean, the Aztec pattering could have some stealth effect but why paint a ship in white which does the exact opposite (white reflects best). It's almost like saying "your target is here."

Bob
__________________
"The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth" Jean-Luc Picard
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
Robert Comsol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 31 2014, 07:16 AM   #239
WarpFactorZ
Captain
 
Re: Oberth Class – the missing link between Enterprise and Reliant

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
[
What would be the purpose of such paint? I mean, the Aztec pattering could have some stealth effect but why paint a ship in white which does the exact opposite (white reflects best). It's almost like saying "your target is here."

Bob
Not KD, but I'll venture an answer. NASA used to paint the fuel tank on the shuttle, too, in the first few Columbia and Challenger launches. But, they saved a pretty penny by NOT painting it, which is why it turned "rust" coloured (less weight on launch, less money on paint). Surely Starfleet has to cut significant expenses here and there, too ... even though they have no money in the 23rd century...
WarpFactorZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 31 2014, 11:59 AM   #240
King Daniel Into Darkness
Admiral
 
King Daniel Into Darkness's Avatar
 
Location: England again
Re: Oberth Class – the missing link between Enterprise and Reliant

I found the quote:

During the refit, Enterprise was given an additional, although minor, footnote in Star Fleet history. In order to save adding many tons of mass to the vessel, it was decided, for the first time ever, not to paint a Federation vessel with the customary light-grey thermocoat. In fact, Enterprise's pearlescent, bare-alloy appearance was so favourably received that Star Fleet has eliminated thermocoat from all vessels of 90,000 metric tons and above.
(MSGttE, page 13)

Grissom, being a "scout class vessel", would be exempt - hence the untextured TOS-style hull colouration.
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
King Daniel Into Darkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
uss grissom, uss tsiolkovsky, uss valiant

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:12 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.