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Trek Tech Pass me the quantum flux regulator, will you?

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Old September 1 2013, 06:20 AM   #166
MauriceNavidad
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Re: Oberth Class – the missing link between Enterprise and Reliant

ILM never thought the film was a prequel.

They were asked to come up with possible designs for the Excelsior and they sketched out concepts. Bill George built some of them and when he had free time was told to come up with one of his own, which he did. The models were presented to Nimoy and he said "that one" of Bill's concept.

The Excelsior has fins and stuff because Bill "thought they would look cool" not because they were intended to be retro or anything like that.

I got all this from Bill one day at his house.

That is all.
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Old September 1 2013, 11:54 AM   #167
Robert Comsol
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Re: Oberth Class – the missing link between Enterprise and Reliant

Maurice wrote: View Post
The models were presented to Nimoy and he said "that one" of Bill's concept.
Would be interesting to learn which of the two illustrated here.

The "duck" on the top or what appears to be a revised study of it at the bottom.
Possibly the "duck" looked too retro to Nimoy/Bennett/Winter, but they agreed to the basic design and asked for a revised study.

Bob
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Old September 1 2013, 12:43 PM   #168
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Re: Oberth Class – the missing link between Enterprise and Reliant

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
Would be interesting to learn which of the two illustrated here.

The "duck" on the top or what appears to be a revised study of it at the bottom.
Obviously, Nimoy chose the one that looks exactly like the finished product.
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Old September 1 2013, 07:09 PM   #169
MauriceNavidad
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Re: Oberth Class – the missing link between Enterprise and Reliant

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
Maurice wrote: View Post
The models were presented to Nimoy and he said "that one" of Bill's concept.
Would be interesting to learn which of the two illustrated here.

The "duck" on the top or what appears to be a revised study of it at the bottom.
Possibly the "duck" looked too retro to Nimoy/Bennett/Winter, but they agreed to the basic design and asked for a revised study.

Bob
I'm fairly certain it was the "duck". Thee other is much too close to the final to have been the original study model.

Bill tells me that he still has an original study model for the BOP. One day I'll make him dig it out so I can get some photos.
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Old September 2 2013, 01:08 AM   #170
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Re: Oberth Class – the missing link between Enterprise and Reliant

I stumbled across some photos, apparently of the Grissom model, that I hadn't seen before. They were on John Eaves' blog.

Check 'em out.







Note the airlock on the side of the pod, and the odd red thing on the top within the pylon.

I seem to recall that there was another model besides the original and the wrecked Vico (which it obviously isn't) so I'm not sure which it would be, or even if that other model exists.

By registry, she seems to be the Pegasus.
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Old September 2 2013, 02:58 AM   #171
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Re: Oberth Class – the missing link between Enterprise and Reliant

Nice find. If that is the airlock then it could be matched up to the Enterprise for scaling purposes.

Edit: NM, here's a comparison


Last edited by blssdwlf; September 2 2013 at 04:11 AM.
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Old September 2 2013, 09:53 AM   #172
Robert Comsol
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Re: Oberth Class – the missing link between Enterprise and Reliant

Great find! Shouldn't that help us to finally nail down the size for the Oberth Class TNG variation?!

Nevertheless and especially due to the bottom view, the warp coil baffle plates - or whatever you may want to call these - look still rather archaic to me.

Bob
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Old September 2 2013, 08:23 PM   #173
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Re: Oberth Class – the missing link between Enterprise and Reliant

Are we 100% sold on a linear progression of registry numbers? Is there room in canon for parallelism? The 600 series could have been reserved for the Oberth line. With no evidence to support that class prior to TSFS, the bridge design (another set reuse) means it doesn't go back much farther than TMP.

I just don't see Oberth as a bridge between Connie and Miranda. Oberth always looked and behaved like a science vessel, not a heavy cruiser. Reliant is a heavy cruiser, a match for Enterprise or at least a general purpose frigate.
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Old September 2 2013, 09:47 PM   #174
Robert Comsol
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Re: Oberth Class – the missing link between Enterprise and Reliant

austen_pierce wrote: View Post
Are we 100% sold on a linear progression of registry numbers? Is there room in canon for parallelism? The 600 series could have been reserved for the Oberth line. With no evidence to support that class prior to TSFS, the bridge design (another set reuse) means it doesn't go back much farther than TMP.
I am sold because this is what the creator of the Enterprise envisioned and because it holds up rather well up to a point in the late 23rd Century where the system was altered.

Having seen the Enterprise refitted in TMP with the probability that the Miranda Class underwent the same kind of refit procedure, I don't see why the Oberth Class could not have been refitted with the latest bridge module etc.

austen_pierce wrote: View Post
I just don't see Oberth as a bridge between Connie and Miranda.
Never mind, since you couldn't "morph" the Oberth into the Enterprise without growing a dorsal, I've adjusted and limited my speculation for the Oberth to be a design on the road to the Miranda Class.

austen_pierce wrote: View Post
Oberth always looked and behaved like a science vessel, not a heavy cruiser. Reliant is a heavy cruiser, a match for Enterprise or at least a general purpose frigate.
My essential idea was that the Oberth Class had been downgraded to a science vessel by the time of ST III, no longer competing with the starships of the mid- and late 23rd Century.

Bob
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Old September 3 2013, 01:33 AM   #175
Dukhat
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Re: Oberth Class – the missing link between Enterprise and Reliant

We have no idea what that hole is supposed to be. It could be an airlock, or it could be where a mounting rod goes for filming. It should in no way be any sort of evidence about the size of the ship, which I don't believe for one second was "upscaled" for TNG like the Klingon BoP was.

My personal belief, based on what I see (and I also do not believe in the linearity and/or chronological progression of registry numbers, nor do I believe that Matt Jefferies' registry scheme was followed by anyone other than Matt Jefferies), is that the Grissom was a new ship, contemporary to the Excelsior. There's no reason whatsoever to assume that it's any older than it has to be, especially with its later appearances 75 years later in TNG.
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Old September 3 2013, 12:19 PM   #176
Robert Comsol
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Re: Oberth Class – the missing link between Enterprise and Reliant

Dukhat wrote: View Post
We have no idea what that hole is supposed to be.
What "hole"? This is obviously an added on decal while the mounting rod is on the port side.

Dukhat wrote: View Post
It could be an airlock. ... It should in no way be any sort of evidence about the size of the ship, which I don't believe for one second was "upscaled" for TNG like the Klingon BoP was.
It has the established TMP and post-TMP characteristics of an airlock and/or docking ring and there is no reason to assume otherwise or to second-guess its use as an indicator of in-universe size (the TNG Enterprise had the same sized kind of airlocks and docking rings).

The original VFX model (Grissom) had an overall length of 120 meters according to its creators. That it was "upscaled" for TNG is the logical conclusion of cross-sections established during TNG.
But even if we approached the size in the Thermian way, than this would be at least proof it was "downscaled".

Dukhat wrote: View Post
There's no reason whatsoever to assume that it's any older than it has to be, especially with its later appearances 75 years later in TNG.
If that's still your personal belief that's fine. If it is not, then we may just go straight back to the beginning of this thread where I provided plenty of reasons.

Bob
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Old September 3 2013, 02:18 PM   #177
blssdwlf
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Re: Oberth Class – the missing link between Enterprise and Reliant

NM. The Grissom in that pick does look smaller than the upscaled version. It's the BOP of the Federation
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Old September 3 2013, 02:44 PM   #178
F. King Daniel
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Re: Oberth Class – the missing link between Enterprise and Reliant

If that's the location of the airlock, then the Tsiolkovsky's internal layout must be the most bizarre in Starfleet
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Old September 3 2013, 09:30 PM   #179
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Re: Oberth Class – the missing link between Enterprise and Reliant

Well, it makes sense if you have to take an airlock from the main section down the secondary hull, or if crappy access from one to another makes it advantageous to have direct access there.

I seem to recall the Cochrane (I think) that delivered Bashir and Dax to DS9 docking at a pylon, but I can't remember how that lined up. (Considering they didn't exactly get the D's docking right either, we're probably just as well to ignore it.)

I'm a little suspicious that the docking port decal was just lifted off the decal sheetof a NCC-1701 refit model kit and later added. If we look at this screencap from the original version of "The Naked Now" it doesn't appear to be present.
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Old September 3 2013, 10:11 PM   #180
Robert Comsol
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Re: Oberth Class – the missing link between Enterprise and Reliant

Praetor wrote: View Post
I'm a little suspicious that the docking port decal was just lifted off the decal sheet of a NCC-1701 refit model kit and later added. If we look at this screencap from the original version of "The Naked Now" it doesn't appear to be present.
Well, according to the registry of the VFX model in "The Naked Now" this is still the ST IV model with little alterations and more to come. The great pictures you provided reveal the ship to be the USS Pegasus, the final state of the VFX model. Therefore the docking port decal had been applied there at some point in time before.

Hmm...if this is really just taken from the decal sheet of the movie Enterprise, how seriously could or should we take it?

And I'm still very, very confused where this airlock could possibly be. Given the unobstructed view into open space the Pegasus' location proposal would be the only one feasible (maybe more thought went into it than we assume?).

Of course, this would make this the secondary bridge for the star-drive crew - when the saucer is on a mission of its own.

Bob
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