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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Doctor Who

Doctor Who "Bigger on the inside..."

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Old August 10 2013, 01:56 PM   #16
Emperor-Tiberius
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Re: Am I the only one that felt uncomfortable about the old Hurt Seria

My favorite part of Hurt's last serial was his multi-Doctor story with Jon Pertwee and Tom Baker. It was rather ingenius how they weaved together unused Pertwee footage and CGI-ed his appearence there. Bloody brilliant for BBC, and of the time.

And Tom Baker... his portrayal of the Fourth Doctor as he's so visibly disgusted by his Hurt persona, is absolutely brilliant. Some of his best work, for sure.
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Old August 10 2013, 04:34 PM   #17
Allyn Gibson
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Re: Am I the only one that felt uncomfortable about the old Hurt Seria

Hurt's era was not without its charms, though.

I loved the two-parter with Jamie McCrimmon in Revolutionary era, British occupied New York. Yes, it was clearly inspired by the New Adventures, with the Doctor and his former companion at odds with one another, but in this case I didn't mind. As an old school Doctor Who fan, I kept hoping that Jaime would remember something, anything about his travels with the Doctor. I liked that they didn't go that way, though, and that Jamie never remembered, not even as he lay dying after taking a bullet to save his daughter and the Doctor from a mob, not that he would have recognized Hurt.

That story, of course, gave us Claire McCrimmon, one of the most delightful companions of recent memory. Yes, she could have been a Victoria redux, but instead they treated her with more psychological depth than the series was capable of pre-1980s. I liked the way her relationship with the Doctor developed, especially as she drew out the Doctor and came to understand who her father had been as a young man. And who can forget the tragic consequences when she was captured by the Daleks and brought before the Emperor? Her screams as she's led off to the conversion chamber still haunt me. That was another moment that, in my opinion, really broke this Doctor.

The other charming moment came early in Hurt's first season, before the series changed direction in "The Sontaran Gambit." I'm still amazed that they did a Hartnell-esque pure historical. Not even RTD or Moffat have had the testicular fortitude to do that. The only word to describe "The Vinlanders" is "vintage." You look at that episode now, and you have to think they got lucky in their timing. It hit screens right before The Lord of the Rings hit, so there was already this medievalist buzz in the air, and when FOX repeated it that summer they recut the trailer to be more Lord of the Rings-esque. I won't say that "The Vinlanders" is completely successful, but it was fun in a way that Doctor Who hadn't been for a few years and wouldn't be again until "Smith & Jones."
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Old August 10 2013, 07:20 PM   #18
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Re: Am I the only one that felt uncomfortable about the old Hurt Seria

Yes, the Jamie story was pure brilliance, far better than "School Reunion" in and of itself, or at least more daring by far, in how to deal with a past companion.

But that mid-season two parter in 2004, "The Master of Time"/"The Three Masters"? Having Anthony Ainley back, even if briefly, was wonderful. Ainley, Roberts and Jacobi sharing the maniacal laugh right at the cliffhanger, bloody well chilling. And the return of Kamelion was perhaps the most surprising thing about it all.
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Old August 10 2013, 07:27 PM   #19
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Re: Am I the only one that felt uncomfortable about the old Hurt Seria

It was so nice to see after Hurt's run ended that the 9th Doctor retained his 'new' Sonic Screwdriver and a variant of his leather jacket, two pieces of his kit that I always thought were quite nice and shocked that we never did see later Doctors wearing such a solid and durable "Action" costume before. Even that scene when he got tossed in that Judoon prison cell, it made a lot more sense than the suits the later Doctors wore.
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Old August 10 2013, 07:36 PM   #20
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Re: Am I the only one that felt uncomfortable about the old Hurt Seria

Frankly, I think we might be risking the wrath of the BBC by even talking about this era at all. Remember that whole cease & desist letter fansite purge that happened a couple of months before Hurt's regeneration? It was 1996 and Paramount all over again, only a thousand times more extreme. They really wanted RTD coming in with a "clean slate." Only a few random mentions have ever popped up online since then, and then it's like the Men in Black shut it down before it gets too far.

Even over on Gallifrey Base, if you mention the Hurt Era, at first they'll look at you like you're nuts, or from an alternate timeline or something, and if you persist, they'll cyber-lynch and ban you. Talk about drinking the kool aid. Oh, my giddy aunt.

Even the X-Files fans refuse to acknowledge it, and that crossover was massively important for both series, but especially in regards to actually resolving Chris Carter's so-called "plan," not to mention actually seeing how the Lone Gunmen got out of that jam with Michael McKean. God bless K-9, a Frohike's best friend if ever there was one. Even if my favorite moment was just the simple shot of Mulder reading 1984 when Hurt walks out of the TARDIS. It's the little things.
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Old August 10 2013, 07:48 PM   #21
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Re: Am I the only one that felt uncomfortable about the old Hurt Seria

None of you are bringing up "Remember the Rani" which in my opinion is the finest Hurt Doctor episode filmed. Call me a sentimental fool but what the series needed was a good romantic epic that especially after the events of "Rassilon's Fire" really showed the angst ridden Hurt given a shot at a normal happy life with unbeknownst to the audience up to that time was the Doctor's deepest love. I mean, you'd have to be a Cyberman/Dalek hybrid not to feel something when the Rani lets Hurt go at the hypertube port with that albeit campy line, "You can never know who you are to me but you'll never forget who I am to you!" and then sacrifices herself by falling into the interstitial rift.
Granted, it does set the stage for the penultimate two-parter "Homecoming/The Terror of a Time Lord" and the "Requiem for Methuselah" way in which Presta and Nesbin make him "forget" the events of the episode is a real eye roller but as a one-off it worked for me.
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Old August 10 2013, 07:57 PM   #22
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Re: Am I the only one that felt uncomfortable about the old Hurt Seria

beneldon wrote: View Post
None of you are bringing up "Remember the Rani" which in my opinion is the finest Hurt Doctor episode filmed. Call me a sentimental fool but what the series needed was a good romantic epic that especially after the events of "Rassilon's Fire" really showed the angst ridden Hurt given a shot at a normal happy life with unbeknownst to the audience up to that time was the Doctor's deepest love. I mean, you'd have to be a Cyberman/Dalek hybrid not to feel something when the Rani lets Hurt go at the hypertube port with that albeit campy line, "You can never know who you are to me but you'll never forget who I am to you!" and then sacrifices herself by falling into the interstitial rift.
Granted, it does set the stage for the penultimate two-parter "Homecoming/The Terror of a Time Lord" and the "Requiem for Methuselah" way in which Presta and Nesbin make him "forget" the events of the episode is a real eye roller but as a one-off it worked for me.
Yes, the end of the Rani's storyline was excellent, and I was actually going to bring up "Return of the Rani," way back when we first saw Kate O'Mara again. She could have done so much more, but I understand why they wanted to have her regenerate, and I'm certainly not complaining about Claudia Black.

I'm just glad they cut that scene out of "Strange Bedfellows." Hurt and Black... that's something I didn't need to see that much of.

Of course, had they gone with their first choice and cast Alex Kingston as the Rani's new regeneration, things might have taken an even...weirder turn later on. For the longest time after "Silence In the Library," I kept hoping that's who River really was. Not that the BBC would have let Moffat do that even if he wanted to (which he very well may have done).
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Old August 10 2013, 08:30 PM   #23
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Re: Am I the only one that felt uncomfortable about the old Hurt Seria

Too much Claudia Black? Heresy!
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Old August 10 2013, 08:32 PM   #24
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Re: Am I the only one that felt uncomfortable about the old Hurt Seria

Kestrel wrote: View Post
Too much Claudia Black? Heresy!
Too much Claudia Black only happens when it also involves seeing too much of John Hurt at the same time. *shudder*

And people think Game of Thrones sex is ... ewww.
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Old August 10 2013, 09:11 PM   #25
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Re: Am I the only one that felt uncomfortable about the old Hurt Seria

TJ Sinclair wrote: View Post
Of course, had they gone with their first choice and cast Alex Kingston as the Rani's new regeneration, things might have taken an even...weirder turn later on.
TJ, I think that's just a fan legend, that Kingston was in line for the Rani. She was still a regular on ER at the time and based out of LA. Nothing about casting Kingston ever made sense from a logistical standpoint. As dream casting on the part of the producers? Sure. We all know that RTD wanted Kate Winslet for River Song in "Silence of the Library," but that dream never came to pass. As something with a realistic chance of happening, though? Kingston as the Rani just doesn't work. *shrug*
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Old August 10 2013, 09:41 PM   #26
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Re: Am I the only one that felt uncomfortable about the old Hurt Seria

My favorite Hurt serial was "The Master and the Doctor", where the Hurt Doctor's first idea to end the time war was even worse than what he ended up doing, and it was up to the Master of all people to stop him. It was really interesting to see such a role reversal. You know things have gotten bad when it takes the Master to talk some sense into you! Shame we wouldn't get to see him again until third season of NuWho.
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Old August 10 2013, 10:12 PM   #27
TJ Sinclair
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Re: Am I the only one that felt uncomfortable about the old Hurt Seria

Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post
TJ Sinclair wrote: View Post
Of course, had they gone with their first choice and cast Alex Kingston as the Rani's new regeneration, things might have taken an even...weirder turn later on.
TJ, I think that's just a fan legend, that Kingston was in line for the Rani. She was still a regular on ER at the time and based out of LA. Nothing about casting Kingston ever made sense from a logistical standpoint. As dream casting on the part of the producers? Sure. We all know that RTD wanted Kate Winslet for River Song in "Silence of the Library," but that dream never came to pass. As something with a realistic chance of happening, though? Kingston as the Rani just doesn't work. *shrug*
Not necessarily, Allyn. Kingston did pop over to the UK to work while ER was in its off-season. She did Boudicca, after all. A guest spot here or there as the Rani wouldn't have been totally out of the realm of possibility, but at the time, she clearly wouldn't have been as available as Claudia Black since the winding-down and end of Farscape. All things considered, it probably worked out for the best, though.

As for Winslet as River... noooo. There goes the proper Mrs. Robinson vibe right out the window. And anyhow, in 2008, she was riding high off of Revolutionary Road and The Reader. No way she would have done a television show, let alone Doctor Who, at that time. This was well before Mildred Pierce. That was just RTD talking up the kind of actress he wanted, never a real chance of it happening in the slightest. And for that, I think we should all be grateful.
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Old August 10 2013, 10:29 PM   #28
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Re: Am I the only one that felt uncomfortable about the old Hurt Seria

Nobody mentioned, so far, the return of Traken as a result of reverse bypolarization (or whatever) done by the Sontarans, in order to harness the mythical Belt of Will that they thought would win them their war.

I thought that was, as mentioned, yet another nice parallel of the Bush-Blair era that explified the lengths at which an war-bent civilization will go into in order to gain knowledge that, by all rights, should have stayed dead.

On the other hand, it was nice for Nyssa to finally return to her home planet, after all.
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"Seventy eight point four years, Doctor."

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Old August 10 2013, 10:30 PM   #29
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Re: Am I the only one that felt uncomfortable about the old Hurt Seria

To be honest, I can't blame the BBC for sweeping this one under the rug. By the end, the show was positively drowning in continuity references, and I could barely watch it without my copy of The Terrestrial Index at my side. The Rani, Jamie, Kamelion, Peri, Ace, Romana, Adric, even Frobisher! Hurt's own companions barely got a look in. (Does anyone even remember Lindsay Gamma?)

I still can't believe they did that five-parter that took place during the Vardon-Kosnax War, brought back the Xeraphin, and retconned the Vardon and Vardans to be the same thing, all taking it for granted that you had seen The Invasion of Time and Time-Flight! When Derek Jacobi turned up in the Khalid costume, I nearly died. I mean, it upped the stakes of the Time War, but otherwise, it was incomprehensible.

No wonder when Russell T Davies took over he avoided as much continuity as he could.
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Old August 10 2013, 10:37 PM   #30
TJ Sinclair
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Re: Am I the only one that felt uncomfortable about the old Hurt Seria

Emperor-Tiberius wrote: View Post
Nobody mentioned, so far, the return of Traken as a result of reverse bypolarization (or whatever) done by the Sontarans, in order to harness the mythical Belt of Will that they thought would win them their war.

I thought that was, as mentioned, yet another nice parallel of the Bush-Blair era that explified the lengths at which an war-bent civilization will go into in order to gain knowledge that, by all rights, should have stayed dead.

On the other hand, it was nice for Nyssa to finally return to her home planet, after all.
Nice? NICE?!?

Oh, well, yeah, I guess it was nice, until we got the off-hand reference that Traken was one of the first planets to fall in "Scourge of the Daleks." It was Jonas Quinn and Kelowna all over again. Bye-bye Traken and Nyssa that time, and we didn't even see it. And by that point in the series, there was so much going on, it was barely noticed.
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