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Old August 15 2013, 03:06 PM   #106
Anwar
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Re: Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

In the books, spaceships had their own FTL drives that they used to go everywhere. Problem was, they needed thinking machines to do the navigational computations for such space jumps.

The Spice gave the Navigators the ability to duplicate the Thinking Machines navigational abilities in humans. That's what they do, the extremely advanced mathematics needed for Spaceflight.
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Old August 15 2013, 03:51 PM   #107
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Re: Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Hound of UIster wrote: View Post
The Wormhole wrote: View Post

Actually, it's not really too far off the mark, since I think it was after reading one of Kevin J Anderson's Star Wars novels that Brian Herbert decided to select him as his co-author for the Dune prequels.
If I recall correctly it was Anderson who approached Brian Herbert.
All I remember is that House Atreides has an introduction or some sort of note from Brian Herbert claiming that he read one of KJA's Star Wars novels to help him decide on working with him.

Unfortunately, House Atreides is the one Dune novel I don't own (I borrowed it from the library). Anyone with a copy of the novel hand able to clarify this matter?
Anderson has admitted he pretty much harassed Brian into letting him work on the novels with him.
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Old August 15 2013, 03:58 PM   #108
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Re: Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

Anwar wrote: View Post
In the books, spaceships had their own FTL drives that they used to go everywhere. Problem was, they needed thinking machines to do the navigational computations for such space jumps.

The Spice gave the Navigators the ability to duplicate the Thinking Machines navigational abilities in humans. That's what they do, the extremely advanced mathematics needed for Spaceflight.
Doesn't it also give the navigators a limited prescience to they avoid any obstacles that might lay along their path?
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Old August 15 2013, 04:49 PM   #109
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Re: Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

^That is how it basically worked. It allowed them to find the "safest path" to the destination.
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Old August 15 2013, 06:04 PM   #110
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Re: Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

As I've said in the original post, I've still only read the first book. But I do have a question, and I hope it could be answered with out spoiling future books too much:

After Duke Leto and his family arrived on Dune, I found it odd (for me) that they were acting like they would never see Caladan again. So I suppose my question is this: How common is space travel in the Dune universe? Because you'd never see something like that in a Star Trek movie (or book) where someone is worried they'll never see their old home planet again.
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Old August 15 2013, 06:08 PM   #111
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Re: Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

Aldo wrote: View Post
As I've said in the original post, I've still only read the first book. But I do have a question, and I hope it could be answered with out spoiling future books too much:

After Duke Leto and his family arrived on Dune, I found it odd (for me) that they were acting like they would never see Caladan again. So I suppose my question is this: How common is space travel in the Dune universe? Because you'd never see something like that in a Star Trek movie (or book) where someone is worried they'll never see their old home planet again.
Space travel is expensive but not insurmountably so. I suppose they were approaching it like moving to a new house, more than as a real one-way trip.
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Old August 15 2013, 06:21 PM   #112
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Re: Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

DalekJim wrote: View Post
Yeah, it's a collection of great and beautiful stories. The life's work of a genius of language and mythology. It gets my vote as the best fantasy book out there, and I rank it up there with Dune as among my absolute favourite books to read.

I'm currently writing a sci-fi/fantasy novel, and every time I need inspiration I'll flick to a random page of The Silmarillion. Within moments, the spark is back in my brain.
I just find it to be unreadable. Its not set up or written like a book. I can't even really describe it. I consider myself a good reader, I'm not easily confused by a book. If you took Silmarillion by itself, you'd assume the author just didn't have the ability to write a novel that people could actually read. Tolkien obviously could, because he wrote four awesome books. I could probably class the Silmarillion as one of the worst books I've tried to read, because even the few books I've read that were truly horrible were atleast readable, which would put them over The Silmarillion in the most important category for a book, wether or not its written so that someone can actually read it.

Thats not something that usually comes up. Usually, if a book is written in a language you can read, 99% of the time its probably going to be atleast technically readable, even if it sucks. The Silmarillion is the only book I've encountered that I basically can't read. It technically has words written in english and put into sentences, yet I'd probably have an easier time reading a book in another language (and since I only speak/read/write english, thats saying something). I like Tolkien and think he was a good writer, but I wish he had written more than four actual books and hundreds of pages of almost gibberish.
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Old August 15 2013, 06:40 PM   #113
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Re: Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

Aldo wrote: View Post
As I've said in the original post, I've still only read the first book. But I do have a question, and I hope it could be answered with out spoiling future books too much:

After Duke Leto and his family arrived on Dune, I found it odd (for me) that they were acting like they would never see Caladan again. So I suppose my question is this: How common is space travel in the Dune universe? Because you'd never see something like that in a Star Trek movie (or book) where someone is worried they'll never see their old home planet again.
Caladan was lost to them. It was given to the Fenrings by the Emperor. They probably wouldn't have been allowed back.
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Old August 15 2013, 06:52 PM   #114
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Re: Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
I just find it to be unreadable. Its not set up or written like a book.
Its writing style is almost always compared to that of the Bible. Which is a book .

The Silmarillion is the only book I've encountered that I basically can't read. It technically has words written in english and put into sentences, yet I'd probably have an easier time reading a book in another language (and since I only speak/read/write english, thats saying something). I like Tolkien and think he was a good writer, but I wish he had written more than four actual books and hundreds of pages of almost gibberish.
Maybe give it another chance? I wasn't too keen on it when I was a kid, but the older I get, the more I appreciate it. It's obviously a work from a master of language, and I find it hard seeing it being dissed as worse than Kevin J Anderson and Brian Herbert's Dune milking process.
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Old August 15 2013, 07:00 PM   #115
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Re: Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

Lindley wrote: View Post
Aldo wrote: View Post
As I've said in the original post, I've still only read the first book. But I do have a question, and I hope it could be answered with out spoiling future books too much:

After Duke Leto and his family arrived on Dune, I found it odd (for me) that they were acting like they would never see Caladan again. So I suppose my question is this: How common is space travel in the Dune universe? Because you'd never see something like that in a Star Trek movie (or book) where someone is worried they'll never see their old home planet again.
Space travel is expensive but not insurmountably so. I suppose they were approaching it like moving to a new house, more than as a real one-way trip.

Yeah, they weren't just travelling to Arrakis for a visit, they were moving their whole operation off Caladan. Given the time consuming duties involved in running a noble house *and* managing the production of the single most valuable commodity in the known universe *AND* the fact that they knew full well they were walking into a trap, the assumption that they'ed never personally see home again was a fairly safe one.

Saying that though, yes I think for the vast majority of humanity, space travel is a very rare thing experienced only by the nobility, Choam trade reps, Imperial Diplomats, and of course soldiers.

As for exactly what navigators do, I think it's worth keeping in mind that Herbert's ideas changed a bit between Dune & Messiah, just like his ideas of what the Tleilaxu and their face dancers were about appeared to evolve between Messiah & Heratics.

Hound of UIster wrote: View Post
Aldo wrote: View Post
As I've said in the original post, I've still only read the first book. But I do have a question, and I hope it could be answered with out spoiling future books too much:

After Duke Leto and his family arrived on Dune, I found it odd (for me) that they were acting like they would never see Caladan again. So I suppose my question is this: How common is space travel in the Dune universe? Because you'd never see something like that in a Star Trek movie (or book) where someone is worried they'll never see their old home planet again.
Caladan was lost to them. It was given to the Fenrings by the Emperor. They probably wouldn't have been allowed back.
Really? I must have missed that. I had always thought they'd left Caladan under the stewardship of a vassal house or some such.
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Old August 15 2013, 07:13 PM   #116
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Re: Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

I'm almost 23 years old, and my last attempt at the Silmarillion was a year ago, its not like age has anything to do with reading it anyway. Heck, I first read LOTR and Dune when I was in the fifth grade. When it comes to The Silmarillion being like the bible, that is really not a good thing. I've never read the Bible myself, but I've seen parts of it. The Bible really isn't a book, either, atleast not in the way that you can read it from beginning to end like a novel. But, its not supposed to be a novel that you read like a normal book, unlike Tolkien's later stuff. Writing a fiction book like an old religious text is not the way to write a book that people can/want to read, it seems more like a style over substance way of doing things, which The Silmarillion has always gicen me the impression of. He seemed to care more about how he wrote it than if it was readable to people.

As for comparing it to Dune stuff, Brian Herbert/KA stuff is far superior to The Silmarillion or any of the other Tolkien stuff that isn't the 4 main LOTR books. Besides the fact that just being readable puts them ahead of Tolkien's lesser known work, they're just good stories (well, mostly, I didn't like the Butlerian Jihand books but besides that the Herbert/Anderson stuff has been solid). They obviously don't compare to the main LOTR books, but Herbert and Anderson have written over 7 good books just in the Dune series, JRR Tolkien wrote four amazing books in his entire life and a lot of unreadable gibberish.

Still, thats not meant as an insult to Tolkien. As much as I enjoy them, none of the BH/KA books match up to the LOTR books, but BH/KA are much more consistent with their work. Tolkien's stuff is either amazing or unreadable, there is no middle ground. I'm not saying their aren't good ideas in his later work, he just wrote them like he forgot how to write a book. Give some good modern authors a chance to translate his work into something that resembles a novel, and it could be very interesting. As it is, its something i couldn't read if I spoent every day of the rest of my life trying.
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Old August 15 2013, 08:16 PM   #117
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Re: Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

Aldo wrote: View Post
As I've said in the original post, I've still only read the first book. But I do have a question, and I hope it could be answered with out spoiling future books too much:

After Duke Leto and his family arrived on Dune, I found it odd (for me) that they were acting like they would never see Caladan again. So I suppose my question is this: How common is space travel in the Dune universe? Because you'd never see something like that in a Star Trek movie (or book) where someone is worried they'll never see their old home planet again.
I think it had more to do with them knowing they were waling into a trap but they also didn't have a choice.

They also nearly made it.. if they had some more time to get deeper contacts with the Fremen and recruit them to their cause they would have wiped the floor with the invading Harkonnen and Sardaukar troops.
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Old August 15 2013, 09:12 PM   #118
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Re: Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
Writing a fiction book like an old religious text is not the way to write a book that people can/want to read, it seems more like a style over substance way of doing things, which The Silmarillion has always gicen me the impression of.
So people should never write complicated books written in interesting new ways, and be content to settle for only pulpy, dumbed down action novels?

He seemed to care more about how he wrote it than if it was readable to people.
I think every author of literature should think like this.
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Old August 15 2013, 09:13 PM   #119
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Re: Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

Lindley wrote: View Post
Space travel is expensive but not insurmountably so. I suppose they were approaching it like moving to a new house, more than as a real one-way trip.
I thought the Lynch film conveyed this really well. I imagined it was like those British families who moved out to the colonies for years, perhaps decades, but still kept a place back home.

Hound of UIster wrote: View Post
Caladan was lost to them. It was given to the Fenrings by the Emperor. They probably wouldn't have been allowed back.
Reverend wrote: View Post
Really? I must have missed that. I had always thought they'd left Caladan under the stewardship of a vassal house or some such.
I must have missed that too. Perhaps he meant given to Fenrigs as reward, considering the Atreides were going to be wiped out anyway. At least, that was the plan.
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Old August 15 2013, 09:24 PM   #120
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Re: Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

I just finished 'World War Z' this afternoon. Which means I'm going to start 'Dune Messiah,' tonight. I imagine I'll get to at least the first two chapters.

I honestly can't wait, I've hard good things about 'Messiah. And some negative things too, but I enter into everything with an open mind.
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