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Old August 16 2013, 01:48 PM   #136
The Wormhole
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Re: Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

Aldo wrote: View Post
I need a little clarification on that actually. Why did the Emperor want Duke Leto killed? Was it just because he felt he was becoming too powerful of a leader?
My memory is a bit hazy, but I'm not sure the Emperor really cared very much either way. It was the Baron who wanted Duke Leto out of the way, due to the rivalry between their two Houses. Since the Emperor was on the Baron's side he helped out with taking care of Duke Leto.
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Old August 16 2013, 02:55 PM   #137
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Re: Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

Aldo wrote: View Post
I need a little clarification on that actually. Why did the Emperor want Duke Leto killed? Was it just because he felt he was becoming too powerful of a leader?
Two reasons: the Atreides was popular amongst the great houses and more importantly his troops were slowly becoming en par with the sardaukar, which would have undermined the military dominance of the Corrinos. There is also the fact that the Emperor had no heir because of his BG wife which would have lead to an eventual crisis in the Empire and the Atreides of course were related to the Corrinos.
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Old August 16 2013, 04:12 PM   #138
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Re: Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

Hound of UIster wrote: View Post
Aldo wrote: View Post
I need a little clarification on that actually. Why did the Emperor want Duke Leto killed? Was it just because he felt he was becoming too powerful of a leader?
Two reasons: the Atreides was popular amongst the great houses and more importantly his troops were slowly becoming en par with the sardaukar, which would have undermined the military dominance of the Corrinos. There is also the fact that the Emperor had no heir because of his BG wife which would have lead to an eventual crisis in the Empire and the Atreides of course were related to the Corrinos.
Thought he had an a heir but the deal was it would she had to be BG trained (so might have even been Irulan). If memory serves it's now the "narrations" at the start of a chapter.
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Old August 16 2013, 04:43 PM   #139
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Re: Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

It was the Bene Gesserit. They wanted the Atreides wiped out by the Harkonnens so that they'd be in a better position to control the Kwisatz Haderach that would be eventually produced. The figured that if Jessica had a girl she'd be captured and raised as a slave to Feyd-Rautha.

This was probably because they realized that nothing would ever get the Harkonnens and Atreides to wed their offspring. I doubt any amount of "The Voice" would be able to compel Leto to give his daughter to a Harkonnen.
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Old August 16 2013, 06:21 PM   #140
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Re: Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

InklingStar wrote: View Post
kirk55555 wrote: View Post
<snip>
I grew up reading the King James Bible so perhaps I had a head start when it came to reading The Silmarillion. Epic history is not everyone's cup of tea, for sure. I recommend you go to the library and find The Children of Hurin. Christopher Tolkien took one of his father's most complete stories from the Sil and, using his father's extra writings (he is no Brian Herbert), he turned it into an actual novel.

Be warned that it is not a happy novel, by any means. But it is good.
I have Children of Hurin, its about as readable as The Silmarillion to me. Maybe slightly less unreadable, but I don't think I got past page 10.
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Old August 16 2013, 06:27 PM   #141
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Re: Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

I liked the David Lynch film very much. I have never seen any of the miniserieses but I think Lynch did quite a good job filming it.

I was rather disgusted at his depiction of the Harkonnens (particularly the Baron) but, like pretty much everything else Lynch does except for The Straight Story, I'm sure that the high disgust-ometer was intentional.
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Old August 16 2013, 06:34 PM   #142
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Re: Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
I liked the David Lynch film very much. I have never seen any of the miniserieses but I think Lynch did quite a good job filming it.

I was rather disgusted at his depiction of the Harkonnens (particularly the Baron) but, like pretty much everything else Lynch does except for The Straight Story, I'm sure that the high disgust-ometer was intentional.
If you liked the books, you should at least check out the Children of Dune mini. It's actually really good.
Anwar wrote: View Post
It was the Bene Gesserit. They wanted the Atreides wiped out by the Harkonnens so that they'd be in a better position to control the Kwisatz Haderach that would be eventually produced. The figured that if Jessica had a girl she'd be captured and raised as a slave to Feyd-Rautha.

This was probably because they realized that nothing would ever get the Harkonnens and Atreides to wed their offspring. I doubt any amount of "The Voice" would be able to compel Leto to give his daughter to a Harkonnen.
I don't think so. As I recall they were scrambling to try and salvage the situation as best they could. Remember Jessica had already partly derailed their plans by having a son instead of a daughter as she was ordered. The intent being that she would have been wed to Feud and ended the old rivalry.
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Old August 16 2013, 06:41 PM   #143
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Re: Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

Reverend wrote: View Post
If you liked the books, you should at least check out the Children of Dune mini. It's actually really good.
The only Dune novel I ever read was the first one. I thought it was kind of impenetrable at times. I preferred the film.

Although when I did read the book, it was in 10th grade, and my study group acted out the scene with the "box of pain". I remember recording the sound of butter frying and using it in class. I think it was the source of much .
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Old August 16 2013, 06:54 PM   #144
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Re: Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
I liked the David Lynch film very much. I have never seen any of the miniserieses but I think Lynch did quite a good job filming it.

I was rather disgusted at his depiction of the Harkonnens (particularly the Baron) but, like pretty much everything else Lynch does except for The Straight Story, I'm sure that the high disgust-ometer was intentional.
The Baron was actually one of my favorite parts of the movie. Yes he was different from the Baron of the books, but he was one of the few changes that worked for me. Plus the actor went really over the top with the role, he was a joy to watch.

Not sure why Lynch felt the need to give him all those boils though.
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Old August 16 2013, 06:55 PM   #145
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Re: Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

^ Probably just to give the Baron's Doctor that creepy dialogue he has.
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Old August 16 2013, 09:13 PM   #146
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Re: Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

Reverend wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
I liked the David Lynch film very much. I have never seen any of the miniserieses but I think Lynch did quite a good job filming it.

I was rather disgusted at his depiction of the Harkonnens (particularly the Baron) but, like pretty much everything else Lynch does except for The Straight Story, I'm sure that the high disgust-ometer was intentional.
If you liked the books, you should at least check out the Children of Dune mini. It's actually really good.
Anwar wrote: View Post
It was the Bene Gesserit. They wanted the Atreides wiped out by the Harkonnens so that they'd be in a better position to control the Kwisatz Haderach that would be eventually produced. The figured that if Jessica had a girl she'd be captured and raised as a slave to Feyd-Rautha.

This was probably because they realized that nothing would ever get the Harkonnens and Atreides to wed their offspring. I doubt any amount of "The Voice" would be able to compel Leto to give his daughter to a Harkonnen.
I don't think so. As I recall they were scrambling to try and salvage the situation as best they could. Remember Jessica had already partly derailed their plans by having a son instead of a daughter as she was ordered. The intent being that she would have been wed to Feud and ended the old rivalry.
I don't think they gave a damn about the feud - it was the bloodlines they cared about and then as part of their breeding program for the Kwisatz Haderach.

I can't remember the scene in the book but in the film there's the line about an Attriedes being married to a Harkonnen and sealing a breach in the blood lines that sums it up well.

Aldo wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
I liked the David Lynch film very much. I have never seen any of the miniserieses but I think Lynch did quite a good job filming it.

I was rather disgusted at his depiction of the Harkonnens (particularly the Baron) but, like pretty much everything else Lynch does except for The Straight Story, I'm sure that the high disgust-ometer was intentional.
The Baron was actually one of my favorite parts of the movie. Yes he was different from the Baron of the books, but he was one of the few changes that worked for me. Plus the actor went really over the top with the role, he was a joy to watch.

Not sure why Lynch felt the need to give him all those boils though.
Well it gave rise to a retconn in one of the House books where the Baron starts off all strong and handsome till inflicted with something nasty as payback.
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Old August 16 2013, 10:06 PM   #147
Reverend
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Re: Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Reverend wrote: View Post
If you liked the books, you should at least check out the Children of Dune mini. It's actually really good.
The only Dune novel I ever read was the first one. I thought it was kind of impenetrable at times. I preferred the film.
In that case you should definitely watch the CoD mini!

I know what you mean though. Dune took me a few tries to get into and I only kept at it because I liked the film so much...and even that took a few tries to sit though the whole thing.

Aldo wrote: View Post
The Baron was actually one of my favorite parts of the movie. Yes he was different from the Baron of the books, but he was one of the few changes that worked for me. Plus the actor went really over the top with the role, he was a joy to watch.

Not sure why Lynch felt the need to give him all those boils though.
I'd say he was perfect for the role in the film, but it just wouldn't have worked if he had been like that in the book. They're both very different animals, but if I'm honest, while the movie version is more entertaining and the actor (to his credit) totally owned the role, I have to say I prefer the original book version.

To my mind he was a much more effective and formidable villain. The movie Baron seemed to lack the lasbeam intellect and felt more like a pantomime baddie. He was a little too disgusting and despicable and not nearly as insidious.

One of my favorite scenes in the first book is that exchange between the Baron & Fenring where just for a minute, Fenring drops the simpering courtier act and the Baron suddenly realizes
what he's really up against.

Marc wrote: View Post
I don't think they gave a damn about the feud - it was the bloodlines they cared about and then as part of their breeding program for the Kwisatz Haderach.
Yeah, that's what I meant by salvaging the situation. As in preserving the bloodlines they'd worked millennia to develop and not let the feud destroy all their hard work.

Mind you, it's been a while so I may have forgotten, but I'm not clear on how they planned of saving the Atredies line. I get that they had Fenring's wife "acquire" Feyd's offspring, but not how the then un-concieved Alia was supposed to be saved. Did they have a plan on getting Jessica & Paul off of Arrakis but the attack happened sooner than they were prepared or what?
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Old August 17 2013, 12:00 AM   #148
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Re: Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

They tried to warn the Atreides about the Harkonnen plot when they first came to Arrakis.
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Old August 17 2013, 01:53 AM   #149
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Re: Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

I figure that the BG were interested in ending the feud as long as it did not conflict with their breeding program. Having two powerful families that both had some of their special genes fighting an endless war of kanly would put those genes in danger, after all. Jessica had to go and screw it all up though...
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Old August 17 2013, 05:33 AM   #150
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Re: Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

The whole thing about making the Atreides and Harkonnens wed their offspring never made much sense to me. What would compel either family to do so? They didn't WANT peace between their Houses and would've been fine doing anything they could to kill one another if the Laws didn't forbid them from doing so. No amount of "Voice" would've been enough to get Leto to give his daughter (assuming Jessica made Paul a girl instead) to Feyd-Rautha.
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