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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old August 10 2013, 01:38 AM   #16
Dream
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Re: Before & After

Timewalker wrote: View Post
At this point in the conversation, I prefer to pretend that Kes never existed.
I like Kes more than Seven.

Kes felt like a real character, instead of a walking male teenage fantasy like Seven often did.
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Old August 10 2013, 01:41 AM   #17
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Re: Before & After

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
At what point in the conversation do you pretend that Kim doesn't exist?
Nowhere, because I like Kim.

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Timewalker wrote: View Post
At this point in the conversation, I prefer to pretend that Kes never existed.
I like Kes more than Seven.
To each their own. *shrug* I always found Kes monumentally boring and irritating.
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Old August 10 2013, 05:43 AM   #18
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Re: Before & After

If it weren't for that stupid 'sexiest man' list we would have gotten both Kes and Seven.
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Old August 10 2013, 06:01 AM   #19
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Re: Before & After

KaraBear wrote: View Post
the thing about Before and After....it never happened.

Kes begins her backward time travel because of the radiation she got in Year of Hell. But since Kes actually left Voyager before Year of Hell she didn't get that radiation, so she didn't travel backwards in time, and she couldn't have warned Janeway about the Krenim
That's totally backwards.

No matter how much you try and think about it, the only reason Kes's warning isn't referenced is because the writer's couldn't be bothered dealing with.
Personally, I feel it would have been easy and the scene could have been awesome. They hear the name Krenim and Janeway orders them to vacate the region but then they're hit by the time wave and they're like "who are they??"
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Old August 10 2013, 06:21 AM   #20
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Re: Before & After

JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
If it weren't for that stupid 'sexiest man' list we would have gotten both Kes and Seven.
I read that as Sexist Man List.

Dirty glasses.

But, it was a Sexiest PERSON List.

And it's not that the writers couldn't be bothered, it's that they thought that it would confuse the stupid knuckle dragging American Audience who would turn the TV off in disgust because Star Trek is too complicated and intellectual.
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Old August 10 2013, 06:40 AM   #21
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Re: Before & After

JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
If it weren't for that stupid 'sexiest man' list we would have gotten both Kes and Seven.
If Harry had been written out, Seven probably would have been a guy just to maintain the gender balance. Braga initially conceived the character as male.
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Old August 10 2013, 04:20 PM   #22
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Re: Before & After

I *really* want to know what they were thinking when they had Seven (in "Year of Hell") re-enact Kes' "Before and After" scene in the Jefferies' tube with the Krenim torpedo. They're both in there for different reasons, but doing the same thing at the same time. It's mind boggling.
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Old August 10 2013, 04:43 PM   #23
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Re: Before & After

It was a money saving tactic. They didn't have to pay a writer to write a new scene.
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Old August 10 2013, 04:49 PM   #24
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Re: Before & After

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Old August 10 2013, 05:08 PM   #25
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Re: Before & After

They already had that "torpedo stuck in the hull" prop and wanted to use it again?
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Old August 10 2013, 09:09 PM   #26
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Re: Before & After

JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
In Star Trek when the time gets altered the effects of the original timeline stay in the new timeline.

I don't know from a production standpoint, but I believe (Based on vague memories of people telling me so) that Year of Hell was planned to be the end of third season cliffhanger. I guess if you want to resolve discrepancies you can say that Kes's memories of the future accelerated her transformation, and if you recall in The Gift her telekinesis saved Seven's life. So you could say in the original timeline, Kes never left, Seven died in The Gift, and the original Year of Hell took place in the original Krenim timeline before the first temporal inversion.
20 posts, and only 1 that says anything useful...wow.

What interests me is that it wasn't just mentioned but ships were designed for the Krenem and battles shown, albeit short snippits. Interesting that they seemed to 'plan' so far ahead in what seems a step away from conventional trek story writing. I would have expected that year of hell just be ignored and the story to evolve in a different way. It was refreshing to see the cross referencing.
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Old August 10 2013, 09:44 PM   #27
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Re: Before & After

The events of Before and After, when Kes provided a report on all she could remember about the Krenim and their temporal weapons was expunged from the databanks because it didn't feature Seven.

If the Borg Blonde isn't a key role in the episode (as either the problem and/or solution) then the events of those episodes mean nothing--which is why all other characters except for Seven, Janeway and the EMH become little more window dressing.
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Old August 10 2013, 09:46 PM   #28
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Re: Before & After

Johnny wrote: View Post
20 posts, and only 1 that says anything useful...wow.
Thankyou for calling us all assholes, it's really refreshing.

This wasn't planning way ahead.

Before and After was setting up the the season cliffhanger which was only a month away.

If Kes hadn't left, were they planning on using the exact same footage like they did in Babylon 5 during flashbacks and timetravel?
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Old August 10 2013, 10:34 PM   #29
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Re: Before & After

Johnny wrote: View Post
20 posts, and only 1 that I agree with...wow.
Fixed it for you.
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Old August 12 2013, 12:52 PM   #30
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Re: Before & After

R. Star wrote: View Post
Johnny wrote: View Post
20 posts, and only 1 that I agree with...wow.
Fixed it for you.
Haha! Maybe '...only 1 that is on topic...' would be closer to the truth!
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