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Science and Technology "Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known." - Carl Sagan.

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Old August 31 2013, 10:24 PM   #31
RAMA
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Location: NJ, USA
Re: Europa moon Lander mission - science

publiusr wrote: View Post
Talk about cherry picking...

That's old news, Dumbacher and others rightly took issue with it.
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/ind...154#msg1080154

But if you scroll down to the comment section, you see this:

It is amazing to see how many so called experts pretend to make anaylises of the work performed by the space agencies without even uderstanding how different and uncomparable the requirements are for a reusable system to LEO such as the Space Shuttle, and a heavy lift rocket for deep space missions to Moon and Mars (forget asteroids, they are not a destination !!!).
Articles like this one only help confusing the political decision makers, by pretending changing physics or by just ignoring it.

Also from nasaspaceflight:

Biased op-eds seem to be the last remaining bastion of the anti-SLS faction.

Meanwhile, SLS has progressed to about to pass PDR, when most of you said it would be cancelled by the start of 2012.

This particular piece from "The Space Review" generally reminds me of the DC beltway lobbyist culture. People with agendas writing "articles". The last part about how his rant should not be construed as dissing NASA or its employees, made me laugh.


Another view

I would say the article is more hysterical than sober. Just a lot of handwaving about made-up SLS costs that the author admits he has no official source for.

His first whack at it results in a per-launch cost of $5 billion, and by the end of the "article" he is claiming per-launch costs of $14.3 billion.

And of course the article make no mention of the progress that SLS is making through the PDR process.

The author does present one chart that shows the impact of the expected low flight rate on the per-launch costs of SLS. It shows that we will need to be launching SLS at least once or twice a year in order to achieve a decent return on investment. Of course, when you plug in more realist costs, the numbers look even better.

As SLS gets closer and closer to reality, the SLS haters will escalate their drumbeat of negativity to a towering crescendo. I just hope that NASA and the good people working on SLS and Orion will be able to ignore the vitriol and continue their good work on these systems.

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/ind...853#msg1074853


Strickland actually supports HLVs, he just bought into ULA's BS numbers on Ares V, SLS etc.
http://www.spacedaily.com/news/oped-05zza.html

From nasaspaceflight-

It has been said a Delta IV Heavy cost around $270M per launch, so $500M per launch of a SLS out side of the fixed yearly cost seems reasonable and based on shuttle per launch costs.

Right now the real stagnation is with everyone making EELV class LVs, duplicating effort, and supporting only medium lift. You won't take humanity to the stars with lvs whose size is determined by whatever the latest comsats are.

Some of Musks problems
http://www.americaspace.com/?p=41515 http://www.americaspace.com/?p=34964

I find it especially satisfying to receive almost daily reports on the progress of the SLS system on my phone. I'm not saying it's an ideal launch system, but it's likely the best option till more money is derived from space based endeavors. There is also the perceived competition with the Chinese which may keep it going.
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It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. Carl Sagan
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Old September 2 2013, 02:25 PM   #32
larryman
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Re: Europa moon Lander mission - science

For the billions of development dollars used... I can't wait to see how the SLS rocket will block the Higgs boson particles, from giving the mass property, to the matter of the rocket and its payload - like an advanced space-launch technology should. LOL

Last edited by larryman; September 2 2013 at 02:52 PM.
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Old September 3 2013, 03:51 AM   #33
Byeman
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Re: Europa moon Lander mission - science

publiusr wrote: View Post
You won't take humanity to the stars with lvs whose size is determined by whatever the latest comsats are.
What does that have to do with NASA? That is not nor should it be NASA's charter.
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Old September 7 2013, 08:39 PM   #34
publiusr
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Re: Europa moon Lander mission - science

Byeman wrote: View Post
publiusr wrote: View Post
You won't take humanity to the stars with lvs whose size is determined by whatever the latest comsats are.
What does that have to do with NASA? That is not nor should it be NASA's charter.
That's just your opinion, Jim. Or use that sock puppet. I don't care which. Your unpleasent manner got you banned from Phil Plait's site because you couldn't hide behind Chris Bergin there. I see how you and Blackstar (as Dwayne Day likes to call himself), like to beat up on folks who support SLS
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/ind...467#msg1086467

The people there complain about how "spectre" dissed other centers--like you did MSFC. Or how you liked to question my patriotism at Phil Plait's. But you get away with far more abusive language than Spectre ever used--and you tell your buddy Chris that he is a coward for not having me stand up to your bunch. But that's okay. Thankfully it isn't just me sticking up for SLS there anymore, looking at the polls.

For those who don't know Jim, (or Byeman as he calls himself)--here is a brief rundown on his personality. Once we were discussing a typo about the amount of money to be spent on this that or the other, and I jokingly suggested that if Hillary Clinton became President, Doom and Gloom Hansen would be NASA Chief, and NASA's typo'ed budget would consist of 10,000 Delta II rocket launches--all weather sats--and you said "What's wrong with that?"

Now if that isn't a lack of vision, then I'm Bill Gates.

BTW The next poster after Jim, IIRC, said "Just about everything."

I simply want a more robust NASA. You got what you wanted. Orion will be initially launched by Delta IV, so if SLS dies, I fully expect you (or ULA at the least) to push for it over Dragon.

sojourner wrote: View Post
That reads a lot more like americaspace's problem than any Elon has. Especially since the writer of the article concedes that it's MDA's choice for how the event is handled.

Oh, and posting a link to an entire article is not cherrypicking. Posting cropped quotes of opinions with little fact is.
That they are valid opinions is apprently lost upon you, so I will leave you with Neil's
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/08/3...eople-to-mars/
Then maybe you will listen.
America Space is a good site and has good folks running it. Covault does work there as I recall.

RAMA wrote: View Post

I find it especially satisfying to receive almost daily reports on the progress of the SLS system on my phone.
The folks at Marshall appreciate that. For more, visit:
http://www.nasa.gov/exploration/systems/sls/index.html

Last edited by publiusr; September 7 2013 at 09:15 PM.
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