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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old August 9 2013, 09:25 PM   #31
Christopher
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Re: Could stardates make some sense?

^Not quite the same thing, but I just watched Airplane II: The Sequel, and they pass through an asteroid field between Earth and the Sun, and somehow when they're nearing the Sun, they pass out of radio range of Earth and into range of the Moon. Granted, it probably wasn't supposed to make sense, but the problem is that plenty of more serious space shows/movies have been just as incoherent.

I still remember this art book I found once at a used-book store, basically an assortment of SF art with a loose text narrative added to try to string it together, and there was a part where the narrator reflected that her ship was two light-years from Earth, only a few galaxies away.
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Old August 9 2013, 09:44 PM   #32
Robert Comsol
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Re: Could stardates make some sense?

Christopher wrote: View Post
Chemahkuu wrote: View Post
I assumed it meant to the outer reaches of this galaxy, which would fit.
It literally means "pertaining to spring," or can figuratively mean youthful or new.
Exactly! Please also notice that it does not read "Vernal Galaxy" but "...of vernal galaxy" (!!!)

Christopher wrote: View Post
It would be oddly poetic and metaphorical to use it as a synonym for "uncharted"; one would think that official military orders would require more clarity.
Why? Let's please remember that the series was produced during the Space Age with plenty of euphoria and excitement to explore the wonders of space.

This is one of the columns Star Trek was built on, not military structures and human beings that behave and function like trained machines. Hopefully we rediscover this sense of wonder and curiousity, and it would do our space programs some good if they were more poetic and metaphorical to recapture this sense of wonder which many people, I'm afraid, have lost.

Pike was in his prime when he went to the vernal (part of our) galaxy. I like the sound of it.

Christopher wrote: View Post
Bottom line, most laypeople don't understand what "galaxy" means, and TV writers are generally no exception.
But we're talking about the TV writers for Star Trek and the producers wanted the series to be scientifically as accurate as possible, The Making of Star Trek is a great testament to that.

An independent "Vernal Galaxy" does not exist and the Talos IV report doesn't say "Andromeda Galaxy" or something that would have revealed this as an obvious screw-up. Please give the producers the benefit of a doubt.

Bob

P.S. I'll get back to the topic of stardates shortly as this horse doesn't appear as dead as I thought a couple of posts ago...
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Old August 9 2013, 10:10 PM   #33
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Re: Could stardates make some sense?

Wasn't Pike born somewhere in the Ford Galaxy?
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Old August 9 2013, 11:42 PM   #34
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Re: Could stardates make some sense?

^ Maybe in *a* Ford Galaxy...
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Old August 10 2013, 12:26 AM   #35
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Re: Could stardates make some sense?

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
^ Maybe in *a* Ford Galaxy...
Given the odd regularity that one member of a Federation starship at least must be obsessed by the 20th century, antique cars from that era or both, possibly.
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Old August 10 2013, 12:40 AM   #36
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Re: Could stardates make some sense?

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
Wasn't Pike born somewhere in the Ford Galaxy?
Conceived in the backseat, actually.
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Old August 10 2013, 02:06 AM   #37
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Re: Could stardates make some sense?

^ Hey! You stole my joke! #ihasasad
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Old August 10 2013, 02:20 AM   #38
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Re: Could stardates make some sense?

Well in those days, it was a Ford Galaxie. I had a '64 Galaxie XL 500 (or 500 XL, can never remember) as my first car after high school.
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Old August 10 2013, 05:30 AM   #39
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Re: Could stardates make some sense?

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post

Christopher wrote: View Post
Bottom line, most laypeople don't understand what "galaxy" means, and TV writers are generally no exception.
But we're talking about the TV writers for Star Trek and the producers wanted the series to be scientifically as accurate as possible, The Making of Star Trek is a great testament to that.
The producers and writers ignored a lot of what the Kellam de Forest Research Company told them was wrong.
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Old August 10 2013, 01:02 PM   #40
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Re: Could stardates make some sense?

^And as I've said, the text we're discussing was never meant to be legible. It was on camera for a few seconds, and they didn't have HDTV and home video recorders back then. It was never intended to be something the audience could decipher in detail, just something that would give a passing impression of being official Starfleet orders and then never be seen or thought about again. Kellam de Forest consulted on the scripts, but I doubt they consulted on every random prop or set dressing. And that's all this was. The producers didn't put that much effort into figuring it out, and neither should we. It belongs in the same category as all the TNG signage with Dirty Pair and Buckaroo Banzai in-jokes, or the Enterprise-D master systems display with the race car and the rubber ducky.
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Old August 10 2013, 04:00 PM   #41
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Re: Could stardates make some sense?

de Forest Research was called upon to consult on props when a legal issue might occur (such as a phone book prop in the movie All The Presidents Men), but as far as I know they didn't advise the production about the booklet in 'The Menagerie.' It isn't mentioned in the October 7, 1966 research report for the episode (the only one on file at UCLA).
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Old August 10 2013, 04:10 PM   #42
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Re: Could stardates make some sense?

Christopher wrote: View Post
^And as I've said, the text we're discussing was never meant to be legible. It was on camera for a few seconds, and they didn't have HDTV and home video recorders back then.
Okay, until the time the film clips and the photo prints popped up which was my first encounter with the file.

Christopher wrote: View Post
It was never intended to be something the audience could decipher in detail, just something that would give a passing impression of being official Starfleet orders and then never be seen or thought about again.
Okay

Christopher wrote: View Post
Kellam de Forest consulted on the scripts, but I doubt they consulted on every random prop or set dressing.
Yes, but this - like the scripts - was just another sheet of paper that could easily be evaluated along with the screnplays.

Christopher wrote: View Post
The producers didn't put that much effort into figuring it out, and neither should we.
? http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x...part1hd180.jpg

Besides that the text doesn't write "of vernal [...] galaxy" in capital letters (to provide the fault you're looking for) it's pretty authentic and absolutely believable in terms of content, grammar and style. Heck, it even reflects the first season premise that Starfleet was apparently a homo sapiens club only. I possibly can't see what's wrong with it and why we should disregard it (maybe you don't like my avatar? )

Christopher wrote: View Post
It belongs in the same category as all the TNG signage with Dirty Pair and Buckaroo Banzai in-jokes, or the Enterprise-D master systems display with the race car and the rubber ducky.
Most obviously the Talos IV file does not belong to this category, because none of the above is hinted or readable.

Bob
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Old August 10 2013, 04:18 PM   #43
Nerys Myk
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Re: Could stardates make some sense?

Christopher wrote: View Post
^And as I've said, the text we're discussing was never meant to be legible. It was on camera for a few seconds, and they didn't have HDTV and home video recorders back then. It was never intended to be something the audience could decipher in detail, just something that would give a passing impression of being official Starfleet orders and then never be seen or thought about again. Kellam de Forest consulted on the scripts, but I doubt they consulted on every random prop or set dressing. And that's all this was. The producers didn't put that much effort into figuring it out, and neither should we. It belongs in the same category as all the TNG signage with Dirty Pair and Buckaroo Banzai in-jokes, or the Enterprise-D master systems display with the race car and the rubber ducky.
Harvey wrote: View Post
de Forest Research was called upon to consult on props when a legal issue might occur (such as a phone book prop in the movie All The Presidents Men), but as far as I know they didn't advise the production about the booklet in 'The Menagerie.' It isn't mentioned in the October 7, 1966 research report for the episode (the only one on file at UCLA).
I wasn't referring to the Menagerie in particular, but the idea that "the producers wanted the series to be scientifically as accurate as possible". I think that's a slight exaggeration.
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Old August 10 2013, 04:27 PM   #44
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Re: Could stardates make some sense?

I think they wanted a sense of plausibility in terms of science rather than "to the letter" accuracy. Even they acknowledged (read this somewhere awhile back) that if they sweated every single detail to be thoroughly accurate they would never get around to actually filming the episodes.
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Old August 10 2013, 04:43 PM   #45
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Re: Could stardates make some sense?

Warped9 wrote: View Post
I think they wanted a sense of plausibility in terms of science rather than "to the letter" accuracy. Even they acknowledged (read this somewhere awhile back) that if they sweated every single detail to be thoroughly accurate they would never get around to actually filming the episodes.
Yep, they were making a TV show, not a documentary. They used what worked dramatically.
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