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Old August 15 2013, 03:49 PM   #106
Dorian Thompson
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

The best theory I've read is that Jesse gets kidnapped by Lydia's cohorts and is forced to cook for them. The finale sees Walt attempting to rescue Jesse in one final redemptive act.
That's a very sentimental theory, but the only way I see it working in the narrative is if Walt does this after a complete rejection by Jesse in every way possible. In other words, Jesse hates Walt with every fiber of his being, but Walt does this anyway. That he would risk himself anyway after such a rejection is the only way such an action could be truly redemptive. Walt's a pretty selfish guy after all is said and done. Does he even give a shit about Jesse anymore? I know the episode "Fly" shows that Walt still harbored guilt over what Jane's death did to Jesse, but Walt still poisoned little Brock to get Jesse to blame Gus. That's not indicative of any real affection on Walt's part--not anymore.
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Old August 15 2013, 04:43 PM   #107
TheGodBen
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

There's two reasons why I buy into that theory, but I'm going to put them behind a spoiler tag just in case.

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Old August 15 2013, 05:20 PM   #108
davejames
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

I think at this point Jessee would just as soon have Lydia's people kill him and get it over with. He seems disgusted with pretty much every aspect of the former business, and I can't see him being forced into cooking again.
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Old August 15 2013, 06:07 PM   #109
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

TheGodBen wrote: View Post
There's two reasons why I buy into that theory, but I'm going to put them behind a spoiler tag just in case.
Thanks, I appreciate that. Sometimes theories informed with behind-the-scenes info get closer to spoiling than I personally care to be.
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Old August 15 2013, 06:50 PM   #110
Dorian Thompson
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

Now that's interesting speculation, TheGodBen. Very interesting, indeed.

I wonder how Hank's going to react when he finds out that Walt's drug money paid for his hospital bills. That could seriously put a crimp in the prosecution. Marie never told him she got money from Skyler to pay for it. Won't that be an interesting moment? Walt must not know, or else he'd use it on Hank in a heartbeat.

Does Walt know? I can't remember.
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Old August 15 2013, 06:50 PM   #111
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

Earlier in this thread, there were some peculiar defenses of Walt, that he only does what he does to protect his family, or fix the mistakes he makes while trying to protect his family, over and over.

Are we forgetting this is the same Walt who poisoned a child in cold blood? Yeah, maybe he was pretty sure it wouldn't be deadly, but poison doesn't really work like that. Brock could very easily have died. Walt harmed an innocent to save his own ass. He also could have easily killed other innocent people when he blew up Tio's room. Over time, Walt has become less and less concerned with the collateral damage of his actions. At first, he only hurt people who tried to hurt him and/or Jesse. He has come to the point where he will hurt (and kill) innocents as a means to an end--to protect himself, protect his business, protect his family.

This is to say nothing of what must be hundreds or thousands of people who've been using his product. He's certainly contributed a great deal to ruining their lives, a crime he hasn't seemed to give the slightest thought to. Out of sight, out of mind, I guess. His product also finances and enables people who intimidate and kill for a living. His real body count is well beyond what's been spelled out on the show.

You are supposed to root for Walt by default, because he's the protagonist. But he's transformed into a really nasty specimen, a man at least as morally bankrupt as Gus. Gus dressed nicely, spoke well, and had a code of honor--up to a point. He was still clearly a murderer many times over, and a pusher of dangerous and deadly drugs. Walt wanted (and got) that for himself. Being "out of the business" doesn't absolve him of anything.

It's interesting to watch Walt's machinations and reactions. Is there anything about him, as a character, I find admirable at this point? Not really. Does he deserve to get away with what he did? Not in any just universe, but of course this is fiction, so he may or may not. What it looks like, based on the flash-forwards, is that he has lost everything he cares about. Where's his family? His home is gone. He has a new identity. He doesn't live in his hometown anymore. He is alone, stocking up on weapons for some major confrontation.

I don't know how Jesse or Hank might figure into any of that. Jesse's interesting as Walt's opposite. Walt's the "good guy" gone bad. Jesse's the "bad guy" gone good--or at least trying to. The bad things Walt has done have hardened him and eroded whatever decent person he might have been. Jesse was a petty thug, a dope pusher, who's grown a conscience and is more and more eaten up by the bad things he's done. Will either of them come out alive, or as functional people? I'm anxious to find out.
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Old August 15 2013, 07:08 PM   #112
Dorian Thompson
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

I still think that Skyler, Junior, and Holly are safe somewhere--whether it's witness protection or somewhere Walter arranged through whatshisname who helps people disappear. Carol the neighbor didn't recoil from him--her look was pure shock like she was seeing a ghost. Perhaps Walter faked all of their deaths for the public at large. Hell, he could have sprayed Heisenberg on the wall himself.

Or maybe not. There are soooo many ways to interpret the flash forward. Who could have foreseen what that eyeball in the pool was about?
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Old August 15 2013, 07:58 PM   #113
davejames
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
You are supposed to root for Walt by default, because he's the protagonist. But he's transformed into a really nasty specimen, a man at least as morally bankrupt as Gus. Gus dressed nicely, spoke well, and had a code of honor--up to a point. He was still clearly a murderer many times over, and a pusher of dangerous and deadly drugs. Walt wanted (and got) that for himself. Being "out of the business" doesn't absolve him of anything.
I don't know that I've ever truly "rooted for" Walt myself, even at the beginning. There were times that you kinda felt for him a little, but he's always been a pretty selfish, petty, and egocentric guy.

Although even now, as far as he's descended, I don't think he's nearly as dark as Gus was. You can see that it still pains Walt to some degree to have to hurt people or orchestrate their deaths (as he often spends long hours in a numbed state afterwards in his backyard), where Gus could slit people's throat without hesitation and without flinching.

Walt, as we see when he gets his ass kicked by Hank, still has to stuggle a bit to be a scary badass. He's still more of a weasel at heart than someone purely dark and evil like Gus.
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Old August 15 2013, 08:10 PM   #114
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

davejames wrote: View Post
Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
You are supposed to root for Walt by default, because he's the protagonist. But he's transformed into a really nasty specimen, a man at least as morally bankrupt as Gus. Gus dressed nicely, spoke well, and had a code of honor--up to a point. He was still clearly a murderer many times over, and a pusher of dangerous and deadly drugs. Walt wanted (and got) that for himself. Being "out of the business" doesn't absolve him of anything.
I don't know that I've ever truly "rooted for" Walt myself, even at the beginning. There were times that you kinda felt for him a little, but he's always been a pretty selfish, petty, and egocentric guy.

Although even now, as far as he's descended, I don't think he's nearly as dark as Gus was. You can see that it still pains Walt to some degree to have to hurt people or orchestrate their deaths (as he often spends long hours in a numbed state afterwards in his backyard), where Gus could slit people's throat without hesitation and without flinching.

Walt, as we see when he gets his ass kicked by Hank, still has to stuggle a bit to be a scary badass. He's still more of a weasel at heart than someone purely dark and evil like Gus.
Well, it was easy to sympathize with Walt's initial plight, and the things he did didn't seem so bad because we only saw bad people (Tuco, et al) get hurt. I can't feel any sympathy for him now. Not really even for Skyler. I just feel bad for their kids, and for Hank--people who've done nothing to deserve any of the shit that's come their way (or is going to.)

If the main difference between Gus and Walt is that Gus is a more dispassionate killer, that's not much of an endorsement of Walt! It doesn't make him "better" in any sense. It's just a reflection of the emotional volatility that's always been part of his character, relative to Gus' cool demeanor.

I don't know how anyone can say Walt has any shreds of decency left. If someone gets in his way, he will hurt or kill them. All they have to do is threaten to--or just be capable of--exposing his secrets. He had several men killed in prison to protect those secrets. He killed Mike to protect them. And I believe he would very well kill Jesse and Hank, if it came down to it. The only reason he's left them alive is because he's kept them under his control. He kept Hank off his path for a long time. He's an expert at manipulating Jesse, or was until recently. Now, Hank knows he is Heisenberg, and Jesse believes Walt killed Mike. Lydia wants him back on the job. The walls are closing in, so I'd say all bets are off.

Only killing for a purpose doesn't diminish Walt's evil. Bad guys always think they have good reasons for doing what they do. That's what makes them compelling. But it doesn't make them less evil.
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Old August 15 2013, 08:57 PM   #115
Garak
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

It's pretty funny to see a stone cold, heartless killer who made a product that no doubt destroyed countless lives cheerily telling people to "have an A1 day!"

Part of the beauty of the show.
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Old August 15 2013, 09:50 PM   #116
davejames
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

The official podcast is finally up. Only just started listening to it, but interesting to hear that the White house was originally meant to be completely leveled in the opening teaser, and not just boarded up.
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Old August 15 2013, 10:57 PM   #117
gblews
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

davejames wrote: View Post
The official podcast is finally up. Only just started listening to it, but interesting to hear that the White house was originally meant to be completely leveled in the opening teaser, and not just boarded up.


And speaking of the flashfoward, I have assumed that Walt has been in disguise in both of the ones we've seen. But I know someone who doesn't think so, what with Carol apparently recognizing him and his showing up at the house in broad daylight.

Anyone else think Walt wasn't in disguise? Just curious.
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Old August 16 2013, 12:25 AM   #118
Solstice
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

"Disguise" might be too generous. He's obviously changed his appearance so he's not immediately recognizable as Heisenberg, but he's not going around wearing masks or anything.
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Old August 16 2013, 12:28 AM   #119
davejames
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

If he's trying not to look creepy and suspicious, he's doing a really bad job at it. Lol
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Old August 16 2013, 01:54 AM   #120
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

Given that he's got his hair back and a lot of beard growth, it seems likely he's reached the "don't give one single fuck about my appearance" stage.
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