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Old October 4 2013, 10:50 PM   #871
publiusr
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

I guess I'm a bad guy for saying this, but I was pretty much always Team Walt. Aaron is a nice man to be sure, but his stint in Last House on the Left showed he could play "bug eyed and unstable" quite well. Gus was even more likeable in some respects. Walt was in between the two--an everyman. Like all humans, he could stoop--or rise to any occasion.


If anything, the real villain of the last season was Ahab Hank--and Marie. I almost wish Walt had been captured, and left us with an indictment of our prison industrial complex--but that would have been too "After School Special' and would have been unsatisfying. Still, the subject deserves to be brought up.


We never really saw Walt flatline. We assume that, but he fell out as the cruisers were getting to him. I actually loved his sense of pride at looking at the equipment--and all my dislike of Jesse just dissappeared seeing him free.

If anything, neither thi or Dexter ended as dark as it could have been--and maybe there is room for a brief movie sequel, not just the prequel: Better Call Saul .


Were I to helm such a flick, I would show Walt being scooped up on a hospital run, with jesse and Brock being a B story with both ending up dead.


We see a courtroom and the back of someones head that looks familiar. But it isn't Walt. We see him die on the table. Instead it is a shaven Ed as played by The Black Hole's Robert Forster. As it turns out, they was a side story where the CIA was selling drugs, and Ed's old closet was rumored to have a Mannlicher-Carcano in it even. He delivers the line condeming our prison populace, before being led away in irons. But, you see, he was already convicted of crimes before hand.

He has allowed himself to take part in this moot court, where we at last see the title of the sequel:


Making Good: The Trial of Walter White and the End of the American Drug War.
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Old October 5 2013, 02:12 AM   #872
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/1...n_4044193.html

Dead.
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Old October 5 2013, 02:34 AM   #873
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

Hey, unless it's open casket, could be witness protection...!
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Old October 5 2013, 04:01 AM   #874
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

Walt may have had the 'everyman' claim at some point in the series, very early on, when he was plausibly just trying to leave his family with a bit of cash. Maybe even as late as season four you could make the argument.

But the moment he went back into the business at the start of season five, no. He is not an everyman, he is a power hungry sociopathic narcissist. Hank's only mistake was trying to take him down alone instead of going straight to his colleagues.
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Old October 5 2013, 06:05 AM   #875
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

Started watching Season 1 on netflix. I am up to, but not including the seventh episode of season 1. So far a good show. Look forward to bringing on it tomorrow.
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Old October 5 2013, 06:24 AM   #876
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

^What the heck are you doing in this thread? RUN! Run away as fast as you can!
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Old October 5 2013, 05:06 PM   #877
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

This is very tasteless....

http://www.masslive.com/entertainmen..._river_default
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Old October 5 2013, 05:24 PM   #878
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
Eh, maybe Walt shouldn't have succeeded at everything in the last episode but it definitely shouldn't have been deathbed-delirium. Copouts like that are a stupid way to end a show.

And if Walt lost, it should have been a likable villain who won, not the Nazis. For example, if Mike hadn't been killed earlier he could have ended up with Walt's money and it would have been satisfying. Or it could have worked as a Chinatown style ending where the well intentioned plot fails because that's just not the way things work.
Personally, I really think the only satisfying end wherein Walt loses or is defeated by someone would have been if Jesse had been the one to do it somehow, Jesse who'd been on the reverse trajectory to Walt's for quite some time. Jesse was his foil. The dumb, doped up punk, who couldn't even pass his chemistry class, not only getting the better of him, but also becoming an equally capable meth cook

Even though I enjoyed the end of the show, I still consider that dream ending I was hoping for a viable option. Jesse is the only one who could have defeated Walt in a dramatic context, & had it be satisfying, & I really thought we might get it when he hung up the pay phone on him near the end
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Old October 5 2013, 06:30 PM   #879
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

publiusr wrote: View Post
If anything, the real villain of the last season was Ahab Hank--and Marie. I almost wish Walt had been captured, and left us with an indictment of our prison industrial complex--but that would have been too "After School Special' and would have been unsatisfying. Still, the subject deserves to be brought up.
I think it's hard for a lot of people to see someone trying to stop a murdering criminal as a villain. And I don't really see how having said murderer end up in jail -- where almost everyone thinks murderers belong -- would serve as an indictment of the prison-industrial complex.
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Old October 5 2013, 07:32 PM   #880
publiusr
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

No one sees himself as a villain. The folks behind the Salem Witch Trials thought they were doing good, after all. Walt has nothing on them. He was just following the advice from Adrian Grenier (Entourage) who promoted his new documentry How To Make Money Selling Drugs on Bill Maher's Real Time.

Low wages, the poverty that creates--all this should be the focus.

Hank is just a modern day Carrie Nation, with the exasperating straight-edger truth.com folks to boot.
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Old October 6 2013, 11:15 AM   #881
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

publiusr wrote: View Post
I guess I'm a bad guy for saying this, but I was pretty much always Team Walt. Aaron is a nice man to be sure, but his stint in Last House on the Left showed he could play "bug eyed and unstable" quite well. Gus was even more likeable in some respects. Walt was in between the two--an everyman. Like all humans, he could stoop--or rise to any occasion.


If anything, the real villain of the last season was Ahab Hank--and Marie. I almost wish Walt had been captured, and left us with an indictment of our prison industrial complex--but that would have been too "After School Special' and would have been unsatisfying. Still, the subject deserves to be brought up.
I can totally understand people rooting for Walt and that's what makes the writing (and acting) of the show so brilliant.

We have a man, a coward, who never had the guts to take his chances in life even though he was brilliant in his field and it wouldn't have taken much for him to succeed.

He is caught in a dead end job and then get's a different kind of chance to prove himself and he slowly begins to transform when he realizes his gambles and risk taking pays off and he gets the respect he believes is owed to him. From then on everything spirals down.

Now the vile things he does are always presented with a twist for the viewer so he can decide if he's right or not. Tuco is a bad guy, one of the worst and his near paralyzed uncle didn't seem better at all (he wasn't as we find out later) so killing him is justified, right?

Walt running over the two drug dealers who killed the kid dealer before is justified, right?

Jane.. ah, here it get's tricky for the first time in the show. Well, she turned out not be a very nice person and she dragged down Jessie with her. She threatened Walt to expose him (and she may have taken all his money in the end) so Walt let her die. However in this case.. was she really a bad person? She was a junkie, an even worse one than Jessie but does that make her a bad person? She could have been helped as her dad tried to help her but this time Heisenberg took control for the first time and there was little justification, if any at all, for Walt to not save her.
Yet the only thing he really cared about was him and the negative impact she had on his life by threatening to expose him and by taking down his partner which would have made Walt's life more difficult.

There have been other instances later in the show that had similar ambiguous scenes but i believe Jane was the first time anyone should ask himself if Walt is just a good guy who went too far or if he had lost it.

The writing was so good on the show that even in the penultimate episode where he slowly withers away in that cabin and is in desperate need of some human company we are trying not to feel sorry for him and many do but i can't fault them. Even after all he's done, all the lives he ruined for his own ego we can't deny that we feel sorry for him at that moment.

As to Hank.. i believe he's the mirror to Walt in a way. Hank was a capable cop but he was out of his league when he got the chance to "play" with the big boys in the big league. Better to be a big fish in a small pond than a small one in the ocean (forgive my bad metaphors ). However the one mistake he made was that he didn't bite the bullet and come clean and ask for support from the DEA office but at this point it also became personal because Walt had been doing his business for so long under his nose and he never suspected anything and that just destroyed his ego.

He might have wanted to save his job in the process but it was revenge too.. in that regard Ahab Hank is not a too far out moniker but i'd not call him a villain by a long shot (they way he went down was anything but villainous).
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Old October 7 2013, 07:54 PM   #882
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

TheRedPill wrote: View Post
I read something that made the finale not out to be a dream or a fantasy, but essentially Gilligan giving fans two endings: you can have your downer ending with "Granite State," and your fantasy pro-Walt ending with "Felina." Pick whichever one you prefer as your personal "true" ending. I can go for that.

Hell, the way "Granite State" closes, playing the theme song and showing a glass literally half empty/half full pretty much leaves it up to the viewer to decide what becomes of Walt after that. It's a perfect ending all by itself.
Yes.

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A plane blowing up overhead just wasn't the same payoff as Walt killing Jesse would have been.
The end of season two was written (and shot) at the beginning of season two. Jesse's death -- intended for a season one episode that never filmed because of the writer's strike -- wasn't planned to be Walt's doing. He was going to be killed in a drug deal gone wrong.
Can you imagine Breaking Bad without Jesse? I can. It's the awful show Team Walt was watching. Jesse Pinkman is the most powerful argument I've ever seen for leaving a serial open-ended.
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Old October 7 2013, 10:51 PM   #883
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

The HP didn't quite do its homework on this one... The "Obit" was an ad placed by a group of fans here in ABQ. The paper did not write it.

So technically it's Fan-Fic?
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Old October 8 2013, 02:50 AM   #884
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

I see it as Jane who was dragged down by Jesse. She was more chemically addicted than Jesse was but she was sober for a long time and under control until she met Jesse.

Her father was controlling her life because of her history, and she had two routes to her freedom. The first was to commit to sobriety and work hard out of her hole, the second was to shack up with somebody who could produce enough money to take her away from her father. She had chosen the first until Jesse came along and gave her the opportunity to fall back into her old patterns.

It's also hard to see the ending as Walt's victory. Sure, the ending was the best possible outcome starting at the beginning of that episode. But we can't forget that two episodes prior he lost everything. His family, his money, the life of a person he cared deeply about. The last episode was just the most of the damage he could undo.
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Old October 8 2013, 11:20 AM   #885
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

Because that's how the show works.. every action carried a reaction and consequences. It would have tanked the entire show when suddenly in the finale everything was fixed, the cancer wouldn't kill him for some miraculous reason and he would get to keep the money to start over somewhere else.

He just had the fortune to be able to keep it together for one last time to tie up loose ends and go out with a "small" victory (as Vince Gilligan put it).
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