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Old September 23 2013, 02:53 PM   #571
137th Gebirg
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

Ryan8bit wrote: View Post
I love how all the speculation about the Ricin target goes back and forth between Lydia, Jesse, and even Walt (despite that not seeming to make a lot of sense), and then out of left field Gray Matter comes back and then you all of a sudden see two new potential targets. Bravo. It's possible that they aren't at all involved in the final episode in any way, but that's still just really great.
It was a brilliant stroke to bring them back in, although I'm not terribly convinced that they're the targets for that kind of end. They were first and foremost used as a catalyst to tweak Walt's ego into returning to Albq. I'm almost thinking now that the M-60 is going to be used to wipe out their corporate offices and labs so that they lose some kind of massive pharmaceutical contract or some-such, forcing them into bankruptcy. Reducing Walt's historical involvement to nothing more than a side-note is believable and understandable, but at the same time smarmy and self-serving. Those two are like their name to me - gray and generally inconsequential. Walt will destroy them in a moment of personal retribution in the finale for marginalizing his efforts and move on to the bigger targets.
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Old September 23 2013, 02:55 PM   #572
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

I really don't think Gretchen and Elliot are Walt's targets. They've been out of the picture so long it feels like a bit of a cheat for them to be the key to Walt's ultimate "victory." I think their presence really was just to catalyze him into going full Heisenberg once more and head back to ABQ for a final showdown with the Jack Pack.
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Old September 23 2013, 02:57 PM   #573
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

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I really don't think Gretchen and Elliot are Walt's targets. They've been out of the picture so long it feels like a bit of a cheat for them to be the key to Walt's ultimate "victory." I think their presence really was just to catalyze him into going full Heisenberg once more and head back to ABQ for a final showdown with the Jack Pack.
I agree, 53 more minutes, not enough time. They just wanted to bring everyone back and them appearing on TV sets Walt in motion to kill Jesse and the Nazis.
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Old September 23 2013, 03:01 PM   #574
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

Why does everyone think he is going after Grey Matter? That is a red herring. Walter watching that reminded him that he needs to take charge of his life and he is going after his money and to kill Jack and his game for not listening to him and killing Hank also. He may also want to stop them from making 'his' meth.

Also, Jesse has to be the one to kill Todd.
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Old September 23 2013, 03:37 PM   #575
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

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Why does everyone think he is going after Grey Matter? That is a red herring.
I don't necessarily think that he will be going after them (although I don't claim any absolute certainty), I just think that it's interesting how people speculate endlessly about who the target for the ricin is, and then some characters come out of left field that people haven't even considered at all. Yeah, it's probably not for them, but I love the fact that even if as a red herring that they can be presented in that way. It's like Vince Gilligan just took the fan speculation and turned it on its ear, and I love that. I love the unpredictability of it all.

That said, if the target is Lydia, I guess all the clues really are there, but I'm hoping that it's something a bit more unexpected than that.
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Old September 23 2013, 03:40 PM   #576
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

^^^ Heh...the only predictability WAS the fan speculation. He wrote and filmed these shows months ago - it's almost like he instinctively knew how fans would react to the occurrences in each episode, and acted accordingly. Gilligan is a master writer, plain an simple, and we're all rats in his maze of changing walls. Normally, I would be pissed at being manipulated so handily. With this, I'm loving every minute of it.

How odd...
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Old September 23 2013, 04:19 PM   #577
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

I think if anything he is getting some joy out of Grey Matter's. They are like "He's a nobody" but all anyone wants to talk about is him. So now he's going to fight back and take out the Nazis as Grey Matter's stock falls.
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Old September 23 2013, 04:40 PM   #578
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

Because Jesse is the only "family" Walt has left. Everyone else has rejected him.
So has Jesse. Jesse's not family. Walt doesn't view Jesse as family anymore, and he was always manipulative and psychologically abusive to him.. He turned him over to the Nazis to be killed without thinking twice. Hank's death ended any chance of Walt working things out with his family and Jesse brought Hank out there. Walt has no reason to want to help Jesse. This Walter White is too evil and far too petty. As long as Jesse could do something for him, Walter kept him around. Jesse is now incapable of stroking Walt's ego. The death of Hank changed everything.

Jesse is his one shot at redemption, in his eyes. Again, this is not out of a particular love for Jesse, but from Walt's pathological need to be the winner. If he saves Jesse, Jesse will have to love him again, right?
No. Now that Andrea, too, has died because of her connection to Jesse, Jesse isn't going to be grateful for another shot at life. I just don't see it anymore. Walter left Jesse for dead. Why would he suddenly want to save him? Walter is thoroughly despicable and beyond redemption. I may be wrong, but color me shocked if Walt saves Jesse for any reason other than to proclaim to the world that Walt is the big badass who cooks the best god damned crystal meth around. Walter wants his accolades.
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Old September 23 2013, 05:30 PM   #579
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

Dorian Thompson wrote: View Post
Jesse is his one shot at redemption, in his eyes. Again, this is not out of a particular love for Jesse, but from Walt's pathological need to be the winner. If he saves Jesse, Jesse will have to love him again, right?
No. Now that Andrea, too, has died because of her connection to Jesse, Jesse isn't going to be grateful for another shot at life. I just don't see it anymore. Walter left Jesse for dead. Why would he suddenly want to save him? Walter is thoroughly despicable and beyond redemption. I may be wrong, but color me shocked if Walt saves Jesse for any reason other than to proclaim to the world that Walt is the big badass who cooks the best god damned crystal meth around. Walter wants his accolades.
Of course that's what Walt wants. I don't think anyone is disputing that. I'm saying Jesse's opinion doesn't actually matter to Walt. Walt is in this for himself. Saving Jesse is for his own gratification, not because Jesse would indeed be grateful for it. Walt would also not see any of this as his fault, because nothing is ever his fault. He always has reasons, and those justify everything he does. He can't help it if things get more and more fucked up!

Anyway, saving Jesse only gets brought up because it's the one remotely redemptive thing Walt could do at this point. If his intention is just to go out in a blaze of glory while taking down as many Nazis as possible, well, that's a pretty fitting end for an asshole of Walt's caliber, too.
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Old September 23 2013, 06:11 PM   #580
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

Dorian Thompson wrote: View Post
Walter left Jesse for dead. Why would he suddenly want to save him?
You say that as if Walter hasn't reversed his positions a hundred times throughout the series, especially where it comes to anything involving Jesse (holding out on giving him his share of the money because he was a junkie, changing his mind about Jesse robbing the meth-heads who ripped off Skinny Pete, quitting the meth game and coming back, saying he'll never work with Jesse again and then working with him right away, etc.).

Walt, for all his intelligence, is a reactionary hothead who says and does stupid things in the moment out of anger and then reconsiders his position as time goes on. Walt, despite puffing himself up like a blowfish (to borrow his example) to intimidate rivals, can also lack confidence and feel inferior at times, and second guess his decisions.

Walt is also driven by a desire to be respected and have someone be grateful to him for "all he has done for them" (a recurring theme throughout the series), despite him actually ruining their lives. He expected Junior to be grateful and loving over the money, because Walt is so far gone that he thinks money makes up for betraying and endangering his family. So delusionally, after Junior rejected him, Jesse is his lost shot at gratitude and recognition in his eyes, to which I think he's going to get a rude awakening.
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Old September 23 2013, 07:09 PM   #581
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

Agent Richard07 wrote: View Post
I was also impressed that we got Walt's old friends from Gray Matter Technologies. The show didn't have to do that but they did.
Not only them but also principal Carmen Molina from way back in season 1.

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Could Matt Damon and Lydia have been more suspicious-looking? Her with those big sunglasses and the two of them talking and whispering while sitting at different tables?
Yeah, this was the one thing that bugged me about this episode. They were painfully obvious about what they were doing.

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Geez, out of all the deaths in the show, I think Andrea's may be the most upsetting to me. She was an absolute innocent with no connection to the drug business at all. I look forward to seeing Todd meet a messy end next week. Oh man.
This completely tore me apart even though I knew it was coming. As you said, she was an innocent caught in the line of fire.

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I think their presence really was just to catalyze him into going full Heisenberg once more and head back to ABQ for a final showdown with the Jack Pack.
I completely agree. My first thought upon seeing Walt's ego firing up at their comments: "This is how Walt gets his fire back."
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Old September 23 2013, 07:21 PM   #582
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

Emh wrote: View Post
Agent Richard07 wrote: View Post
Could Matt Damon and Lydia have been more suspicious-looking? Her with those big sunglasses and the two of them talking and whispering while sitting at different tables?
Yeah, this was the one thing that bugged me about this episode. They were painfully obvious about what they were doing.
I got the impression that this was totally intentional. She's intelligent, but not terribly smart. And she is waaaay too up tight. She's over-analyzing her situation all the time to the point of missing obvious things. This little back-to-back set up she mandated at the outset of the conversation is a perfect example at how she thinks she has all her bases covered, but in reality is showing gaping holes in her strategy by needlessly drawing attention to herself and her erratic behavior in public. She has her nose so close to the ground nitpicking all the unnecessary details with blinders on, she will be unable to see the swan-song freight train heading her way in the person of the full-on Heisenberg Walt White. I predict it will be quite cinematic and darkly amusing.
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Old September 23 2013, 07:29 PM   #583
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

137th Gebirg wrote: View Post
Emh wrote: View Post
Agent Richard07 wrote: View Post
Could Matt Damon and Lydia have been more suspicious-looking? Her with those big sunglasses and the two of them talking and whispering while sitting at different tables?
Yeah, this was the one thing that bugged me about this episode. They were painfully obvious about what they were doing.
I got the impression that this was totally intentional. She's intelligent, but not terribly smart. And she is waaaay too up tight. She's over-analyzing her situation all the time to the point of missing obvious things. This little back-to-back set up she mandated at the outset of the conversation is a perfect example at how she thinks she has all her bases covered, but in reality is showing gaping holes in her strategy by needlessly drawing attention to herself and her erratic behavior in public. She has her nose so close to the ground nitpicking all the unnecessary details with blinders on, she will be unable to see the swan-song freight train heading her way in the person of the full-on Heisenberg Walt White. I predict it will be quite cinematic and darkly amusing.
Pretty much it and it reminded me of an earlier scene in the show when she tried to pull the same crap with Mike and he just ignored her

Why do i feel we won't be getting a Vietnam style Heisenberg flat on the ground while pouring 7.62 mm rounds into the Nazis? The show is too good for that but i'd still like to see that.

Still my favorite theory is that Walt breaks out Jesse from his slavery (thinking about Jesse's state especially after this episode and a few more months of slavery just drives me into depression), they settle scores like Jesse/Meth Damon ( love that moniker) and Walt/Lydia and then Jesse shoots him for all his done and Walt will let him do it realizing he has to finally own up to what he's done.

Depending on how dark the show may go the money might not even make it to Walt's family for some reason making the entire Heisenberg enterprise utterly pointless.

Damn.. an entire week to go
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Old September 23 2013, 08:10 PM   #584
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

Agent Richard07 wrote: View Post
Could Matt Damon...
You know, after having looked at him for a while now, to me Todd looks more like country singer, Randy Travis than Matt Damon.
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Why would Walt do a 180 and save Jesse? Hank dying was the straw that broke the camel's back, and in Walt's mind Jesse is responsible. I just don't buy it. Walt's as likely to kill Jesse as to kill Jack, Elliot, Gretchen, and the supremely annoying Lydia with her stevia and soy milk tea.

Not that I don't think Cranston could sell it convincingly, but I don't see any final change of heart on his part.
Because Jesse is the only "family" Walt has left. Everyone else has rejected him. Jesse is his one shot at redemption, in his eyes. Again, this is not out of a particular love for Jesse, but from Walt's pathological need to be the winner. If he saves Jesse, Jesse will have to love him again, right?
I tend to agree with this. Walt said to Saul that his intention is to go after Jack for killing Hank, indicating that he is no longer blaming Jesse for that. I could see Walt going after Jack's gang and in the process finding Jesse still alive and freeing him. But in true BB style, maybe Walt does free Jesse only to have Jesse kill him first chance he gets.

I admit that using the ricin on Lydia could happen. But I can't figure out why he would, unless maybe, he finds out she is pushing for Skyler's murder. But if he does do that, how would he get close enough to her? I doubt seriously if Lydia would meet with Walt, though I suppose he could trick her. I really hope that the destination of the ricin turns out to be worth all this speculation.

Yes, Robert Forster was a nice little surprise. That guy is an Oscar winner, isn't he?

Emotional, overreacting, brilliant Walt may be the most dangerous guy on the show, but the scariest is Todd. Count me among the legions who want to see him set on his way to Belize.

I thnk that was Saul's swan song for the show. I'll bet he never expected in the beginning that Walt would also bring him down.

What a great ride this has been.
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Old September 23 2013, 08:22 PM   #585
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

If Saul doesn't appear in the finale, I wonder if his spin-off will employ some sort of flashback structure...with him managing a Cinnabon in the middle of Kansas, of course.
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