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Old September 9 2013, 09:40 PM   #376
TheMurph
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

When Hank was talking to Marie I was expecting their conversation to be cut short with a bullet. Did not expect the protracted standoff.
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Old September 9 2013, 10:18 PM   #377
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

My reaction to the ending...



NOOOOOOOOOO NOOOOOOOOOOOO NOOOOOOOOOOO

God I need next week to arrive NOW!
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Old September 9 2013, 10:41 PM   #378
J.T.B.
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

davejames wrote: View Post
Well I'm no legal expert, but the fact Walt led them to the money he buried would seem to make it a pretty open and closed case. I don't think Hank would really need a court order in order to simply follow him there, and Walt wouldn't be able to argue the money was all just from gambling.

It also verifies that pretty much everything Jesse said in his confession was true.
And the probable cause for even looking for the money in the first place? Some writing in a book that can't be effectively tied to the suspect? The word of an known drug dealer, addict and admitted killer? Some warrant-less surveillance?

When Hank started to go through the case files, I thought the idea was going to be that he would go over every inch of the investigation so thoroughly that he would find evidence and build a case so sound that the book and all the stuff Hank did "on his own" could be thrown out and he'd still nail Walt. But that's not the way things went.
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Old September 9 2013, 10:47 PM   #379
JirinPanthosa
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

I somehow don't see either Hank or Jesse surviving this.

The only way I can see either one of them surviving is if Walter runs out in the middle of the crossfire and says he'll cook for them if they take Hank and/or Jesse hostage instead of killing them.

Let's also not forget that Hank was most likely recording the conversation with Walt when he started screaming about all the murders he perpetrated to protect Jesse.
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Old September 9 2013, 11:21 PM   #380
Robert Maxwell
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

J.T.B. wrote: View Post
davejames wrote: View Post
Well I'm no legal expert, but the fact Walt led them to the money he buried would seem to make it a pretty open and closed case. I don't think Hank would really need a court order in order to simply follow him there, and Walt wouldn't be able to argue the money was all just from gambling.

It also verifies that pretty much everything Jesse said in his confession was true.
And the probable cause for even looking for the money in the first place? Some writing in a book that can't be effectively tied to the suspect? The word of an known drug dealer, addict and admitted killer? Some warrant-less surveillance?

When Hank started to go through the case files, I thought the idea was going to be that he would go over every inch of the investigation so thoroughly that he would find evidence and build a case so sound that the book and all the stuff Hank did "on his own" could be thrown out and he'd still nail Walt. But that's not the way things went.
I think Hank taking a "by the book" approach was off the table the moment he realized Walt was Heisenberg. He'd been pushing limits for some time with regard to the case, as it had become very personal to him, and to find out it was his own brother-in-law that kept eluding him really sent him over the edge. He didn't want to just build a case, he wanted to humiliate Walt the way Walt had been humiliating him for so long. I think that's what was really behind the drawn-out way Hank arrested him. Hank is way too emotional about this case and the fact that his brother-in-law is the Big Bad for him to be content with being patient and by-the-book.
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Old September 9 2013, 11:28 PM   #381
Mister Fandango
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

J.T.B. wrote: View Post
Some warrant-less surveillance?
Why do you keep bringing up "warrant-less surveillance?" Yes, you need a warrant for things like wire tapping. No, you don't need a warrant to record crap people say out in the open, especially in a public place where anyone nearby could have heard the conversation. If you did, no one would be allowed to own a damn video camera or tape recorder, news channels would be out of business, and paparazzi would all be imprisoned for life.
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Old September 9 2013, 11:38 PM   #382
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

Walt was talking into Jesse's phone. I suppose these phones can be set to record the conversation. I also suppose it's possible that Jesse, even if Hank had Jesse's phone in his pocket, could call from another phone and play back the recording, just as he could call his own number and playback his messages/voicemail. Also, Jesse also knows that the memory card with his confession is at Hank's house. I don't think he knows that Hank had copied it onto another memory card while he was in the restroom.

Yes, it is implausible that Jesse survives. Yes, the shootout was unrealistic. The plotting has become very sketchy and arbitrary. Yes, it is plausible that someone with 385 gallons of money and no explanation for it is done. If the DEA can't make it stick, the IRS will. No, Saul would not have been be able to work his magic, nor would Walt have been able to go gadding about free from intense police observation.

No, Skylar will not reconcile with Marie. Marie in fact is the next target, and should die in the next episode, and that may finally turn Skylar off the money. Yes, Jack will know that Hank and Gomez were working by themselves, because if it was an official operation the helicopter would have spotted their convoy. So, yes, Jack's going to the Shrader house.

Yes, Walt will try to use the DVD against dead Hank. A corpse has a lot less defensive power, but even so, it would be preposterous if the DEA buys into Walt's little drama.

What does Hank's demise mean in story telling terms? The true hero, a flawed man but a good one, is still a loser, who snatches ignominious defeat from the jaws of victory.

In Walt's morally perverted eyes, Jesse has betrayed him and he can no more forgive Jesse than he could have been satisfied to die as a loving husband and devoted father, which is to say, a loser. Walt preferred being a winner (as does much of the audience,) to be a good man. Walt is the antihero. As the antivillain, Jesse's confession is a step toward redemption. Although the show chose to minimize it, Jesse's confession is also a judgment on Walt. The viewer is given (dimly, clumsily) a starkly dramatic choice between Walt and Jesse.

Like Hank, Jesse is still a loser. On one level of course many in the audience identify with Walt the winner. I suppose they could not accept Jesse as a winner, a perversion of the natural order in which only the strong like Walt win. Weaklings like Jesse are just crazy.

Here at the end the series cannot finesse its decision about what it values in Walt/Jesse/Hank.

I suppose it's possible that Walt is skipping witness relocation in New Hampshire, not surfacing from his own escape.

PS I think the Todd thing isn't a bit sincere. But the soft, romantic approach to older superiors worked out in prison pretty well. Todd's a practical young man, he sticks with what he knows.
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Old September 9 2013, 11:41 PM   #383
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

J.T.B. wrote: View Post
And the probable cause for even looking for the money in the first place? Some writing in a book that can't be effectively tied to the suspect? The word of an known drug dealer, addict and admitted killer? Some warrant-less surveillance?

When Hank started to go through the case files, I thought the idea was going to be that he would go over every inch of the investigation so thoroughly that he would find evidence and build a case so sound that the book and all the stuff Hank did "on his own" could be thrown out and he'd still nail Walt. But that's not the way things went.
Well when the mountain of circumstantial evidence is as high as this, I don't think Hank really needs much more than the money to tie all of it to Walt. And contrary to what CSI tells us, people are convicted through circumstantial evidence all the time.

And Hank had more than enough reasonable suspicion to believe Walt was involved in criminal activity. Plus the money was out in the desert, and not in Walt's car or house, so I'm not sure he would really need a warrant in that case.
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Old September 10 2013, 12:03 AM   #384
J.T.B.
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
I think Hank taking a "by the book" approach was off the table the moment he realized Walt was Heisenberg. He'd been pushing limits for some time with regard to the case, as it had become very personal to him, and to find out it was his own brother-in-law that kept eluding him really sent him over the edge. He didn't want to just build a case, he wanted to humiliate Walt the way Walt had been humiliating him for so long. I think that's what was really behind the drawn-out way Hank arrested him. Hank is way too emotional about this case and the fact that his brother-in-law is the Big Bad for him to be content with being patient and by-the-book.
That's probably right. Hank couldn't keep his cool about it, and the "confession" video probably sent him over the edge.

Mister Fandango wrote: View Post
Why do you keep bringing up "warrant-less surveillance?"
I think you have me confused with someone else. But you're right, I was in a hurry and only threw that in there thinking of Jesse wearing the wire, which didn't work anyway.

davejames wrote: View Post
Well when the mountain of circumstantial evidence is as high as this, I don't think Hank really needs much more than the money to tie all of it to Walt. And contrary to what CSI tells us, people are convicted through circumstantial evidence all the time.
That's assuming all the evidence would be admissible. Hank has handled the investigation so irregularly, though, and done things in such a rule-bending way, that a defense attorney would have a field day with evidentiary hearings.

My main point, though, is that Hank shouldn't be so confident. There are a lot of things that could go wrong with his case. Hank doesn't even know what prosecutor will be screening the case or what he/she would make of the unorthodox way it's been handled.
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Old September 10 2013, 04:45 AM   #385
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

Btw, Lydia "Appreciates" all of creepy lipstick molester Todd's hard work? The only thing she appreciates is that she can't push these people around because she's surrounded by murderous nutjobs
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Old September 10 2013, 10:48 AM   #386
Seven of Five
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

Todd and Lydia's business is hilarious to watch compared to how it used to be ran. The lipstick thing was both disgusting and very funny. Perhaps after everyone's dead the last three episodes are about their squicky office romance?

Of course Jesse meant Walt's money when he meant getting him where he really lived. Walt has become such a greedy bastard by this point of the show, I'm surprised I didn't click quicker. (Duh.)

A nice bit of comedy with Skyler keeping Walt Jr. safe by having him working at the car was. Saul turning up had Junior starstruck, but I wonder what he'd think if he knew just how much a part of the family's life he actually was?

The whole episode had me chewing my nails. Walt in Brock's proximity again instantly gave me alarm bells. And then Hank calling bullshit on that little plot had me cheering. Which then led to Walt chasing his money in that crazy sequence on the way to the desert.

The very, very drawn out bit of Hank arresting Walt already had me expecting a bullet in the head. The lovey-dovey phone call to Marie had me expecting a rocket to the head. And then of course we were left with that cliffhanger. Thanks Vince Gilligan, how will I enjoy my week off now?

Now I've calmed down, the firefight was a bit unrealistic as Hank and Gomez would be dead already. I imagine that will have changed by the end of the next episode, otherwise something silly would have to happen for them to escape.
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Old September 10 2013, 12:18 PM   #387
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

Walt making a blackmail tape where he confesses that Hank was behind everything was absolutely brilliant. Walt's pretty much a black hat at this point but man was I cheering for him for that one
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Old September 10 2013, 02:55 PM   #388
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

I didn't like the cliffhanger nature of the ending. If Hank survives then it's a cop-out, but if Hank dies then this cliffhanger ruins the immediacy of the moment.

One thing I'm wondering is if Hank does die next episode, will Walt's "confession" be found and ruin his reputation? The DEA will presumably come to his house to take possession of all the Heisenberg files, so it's possible that they'll also find the DVD. Hank being mysteriously gunned down in the desert would only add to the evidence that he was doing deals with shady characters.


137th Gebirg wrote: View Post
^^^ That occurred to me as well, that perhaps the conversation was being recorded and Walt just gave his "real" confession on the way out there. It would be another miscalculation on his part. He's starting to get flustered and make some bad mistakes.
That call was definitely being recorded, Hank's whole plan last week was to record Walt on tape admitting to his crimes so it would be foolish not to record the call. Note how Jesse stops talking after Walt's rant about killing all those people. Hank had what he needed, there was no point in continuing the call at that point.

The important thing is that the recording is probably still in Hank's car and the call wasn't being recorded by the DEA. Walt and Jack will probably find the recording next episode and destroy it.

Dorian Thompson wrote: View Post
Maybe this is how Jesse will stay alive. Walt will refuse to cook for the nazi brothers because he's in a rage about Hank and the fact that he now can never go back to Skyler and his kids, so Todd says Jesse can cook for them.
Jack's gang now also have the leverage to force Jesse to cook for them because Walt let them know that Jesse cares about Brock. If Jesse refuses to cook for Jack's gang, all they have to do is threaten to kill Brock and Jesse will probably acquiesce. It's not exactly how I imagined things would play out, I foresaw Walt willingly handing Jesse over to Jack's gang to save his own skin, whereas now it appears to be a case of happenstance, if that's what happens.

J.T.B. wrote: View Post
But once Hank went Johnny Law on Walt, I started to think things were wrapping up too neatly. How did Hank get so confident about putting Walt away all of a sudden?
I don't think Hank was confident of convicting Walt, but Hank had enough evidence to clear his own name and begin a full DEA investigation. It was a case of the intimidate threat to Hank's livelihood being over and now the real investigative work could begin. That's how I saw it at any rate.
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Old September 10 2013, 03:09 PM   #389
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

Watched the episode last night and couldn't believe that Hank and Gomez didn't die almost instantly given the way the Crew took out the other meth crew so efficiently, when Kenny drew down site on Hank and Gomez I'm thinking "How in the world world could you miss with that monster of a gun".
Given the fact that Hank has his regular sidearm with 16-ish rounds (which he easily emptied in that 30 second battle we saw) and maybe a few extra clips, plus Walt's six shooter (that may or may not fire after being frozen for how long?) And Gomez with his shotgun (that he easily emptied) and his side arm (few extra clips) how could that battle go on more than another minute tops?

The only outside force I could see intervening would be the tribal police (did you notice how they mentioned them a few times) but what would be the odds of them showing up there in that exact spot in that vast desert?


On a side note, wouldn't it be funny if Walt somehow lost all his money but then hit mega millions with his winning GPS lotto ticket?
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Old September 10 2013, 04:48 PM   #390
J.T.B.
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Re: Breaking Bad Final Half Season

TheGodBen wrote: View Post
J.T.B. wrote: View Post
But once Hank went Johnny Law on Walt, I started to think things were wrapping up too neatly. How did Hank get so confident about putting Walt away all of a sudden?
I don't think Hank was confident of convicting Walt, but Hank had enough evidence to clear his own name and begin a full DEA investigation. It was a case of the intimidate threat to Hank's livelihood being over and now the real investigative work could begin. That's how I saw it at any rate.
Maybe, but that still doesn't ring true for the character for me. With the kind of baggage Hank is carrying, I don't think he would be satisfied with anything less than putting Walt away for good. I pictured Hank on edge and uneasy until Walt is actually in prison; it would kill him for Walt to win in the courtroom. Making the call and saying he had Walt dead-to-rights... it seemed too easy, a bit of a contrivance to set up a false dawn.

PKerr wrote: View Post
[...]plus Walt's six shooter (that may or may not fire after being frozen for how long?)
Five-shooter, which may not be the same gun because now it's a Smith & Wesson while the earlier one was a Ruger. But anyway, once it's warmed up it will work fine, the old-tech of revolvers is pretty oblivious to abuse and lack of maintenance.
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