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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old August 13 2013, 07:10 PM   #121
Set Harth
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Re: What you DON'T want to see in Star Trek 3

No women just in their underwear
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Old August 13 2013, 07:14 PM   #122
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Re: What you DON'T want to see in Star Trek 3

What I don't want to see? How about NOT SEEING "no explanation" as to why the older Spock is not using the time travelling formula that he had used to bring back two humpback whales to save earth from his own timeline, to save Vulcan in this timeline?

One should explain Spock's reluctance of using that time travelling formula to save not only Vulcan, but his mother too, because the trilogy wouldn't track at all then.
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Old August 13 2013, 07:56 PM   #123
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Re: What you DON'T want to see in Star Trek 3

Kruezerman wrote: View Post
thumbtack wrote: View Post
How can you be sure? They go into each nu movie really, really wanting to like it.
Where have you been these past twelve months?
I wanted to like ST09. As a Cumberbatch fan, I really wanted to like the last movie.
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Old August 13 2013, 08:04 PM   #124
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Re: What you DON'T want to see in Star Trek 3

Enow wrote: View Post
What I don't want to see? How about NOT SEEING "no explanation" as to why the older Spock is not using the time travelling formula that he had used to bring back two humpback whales to save earth from his own timeline, to save Vulcan in this timeline?

One should explain Spock's reluctance of using that time travelling formula to save not only Vulcan, but his mother too, because the trilogy wouldn't track at all then.
The same thing that stops everyone time travelling whenever anything bad happens in any episode or movie?

Plus, if you go back you have to defeat Nero again and if you fail there...
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Old August 13 2013, 09:39 PM   #125
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Re: What you DON'T want to see in Star Trek 3

Star Trek Into Wrathness.

Genius!
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Old August 14 2013, 12:26 AM   #126
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Re: What you DON'T want to see in Star Trek 3

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Enow wrote: View Post
What I don't want to see? How about NOT SEEING "no explanation" as to why the older Spock is not using the time travelling formula that he had used to bring back two humpback whales to save earth from his own timeline, to save Vulcan in this timeline?

One should explain Spock's reluctance of using that time travelling formula to save not only Vulcan, but his mother too, because the trilogy wouldn't track at all then.
The same thing that stops everyone time travelling whenever anything bad happens in any episode or movie?

Plus, if you go back you have to defeat Nero again and if you fail there...
I understand your point of view if it was a "spur of the moment" decision, but I am not sure it still counters the necessity to save Vulcan and his mother, especially when time is on Spock's side to prepare before they go back in time.

For Spock's plan to succeed, a cloaking devise would be necessary: and I am sure as the Federation ambassader to Romulus, Spock would have been involved in that "unsettling dispute" when the Federation was exposed for creating & using that "Pegasus" cloaking device, hence Spock would have knowledge of it.

I am sure Spock would have a couple more tricks up his sleeves to insure success like in the advancement that Voyager had aquired on her return home, hence "ablative armour" and multiphasic torpedoes and more.
The older Spock and the new Enterprise with her crew would be the "extra" advanced Exterprise and crew in that timeline. They know where they were & what they would be doing as well as the bad guys.

The catch would more than likely be asking the crew of the Enterprise into sacrificing their lives by breaking off ties with families, spouses, lovers, and friends along with Starfleet when they go back in time, because their other "selves" would belong to them more than their future selves would.

I mean, if they were successful in defeating Nero & the nemesis in the second movie along with Khan, they may save Vulcan, but they can never really go "home".

I would find this scenario for the third movie far more appealing: a rogue advanced Starship Enterprise hiding out as a "guardian angel" to the less advanced Enterprise. It could even be the spice into becoming a series.

Of course, what happens after Khan is anybody's guess as even the advanced Enterprise wouldn't know either. So both crew would be facing the unknown together.

Anyway, just explaining that the older Spock had time now to prepare for saving Vulcan & his mother. Now all he needs to do is ask the executive crewmembers of the Enterprise if they and the rest of her crew would deem sacrificing their personal lives and their homes into saving Vulcan.

Only the older Spock can convince the crew of what Starfleet have lost in the long run as he would be able to do if Earth was destroyed.

Heck, being on the Enterprise crew, they would know of its history and have a fondness for T'Pol, another vulcan, that served onboard under Captain Archer.

Since Vulcans have a longer lifespan and they do look younger than their actual age, it would be great if T-Pol was there to be "astonished" of the honour the crew was giving her for her service to Starfleet that they would give up their lives to save Vulcan.

Of course, if Jolene Blalock is unavailable, I suppose T'Pol's death on the planet Vulcan would "still" stir them to respond as it would be very personal to the crew of the Enterprise that they would want to save her as well as Vulcan.

Anyway... just explaining why it wouldn't track if they never really had the older Spock explained rationally & logically why he is not preparing for timetravelling to save Vulcan and his mother when time is on his side to do so.
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Old August 14 2013, 12:31 AM   #127
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Re: What you DON'T want to see in Star Trek 3

Enow wrote: View Post

Anyway... just explaining why it wouldn't track if they never really had the older Spock explained rationally & logically why he is not preparing for timetravelling to save Vulcan and his mother when time is on his side to do so.
Because, the timeline split. His Mama and planet led full lives in another timeline.
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Old August 14 2013, 02:06 AM   #128
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Re: What you DON'T want to see in Star Trek 3

Enow wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Enow wrote: View Post
What I don't want to see? How about NOT SEEING "no explanation" as to why the older Spock is not using the time travelling formula that he had used to bring back two humpback whales to save earth from his own timeline, to save Vulcan in this timeline?

One should explain Spock's reluctance of using that time travelling formula to save not only Vulcan, but his mother too, because the trilogy wouldn't track at all then.
The same thing that stops everyone time travelling whenever anything bad happens in any episode or movie?

Plus, if you go back you have to defeat Nero again and if you fail there...
I understand your point of view if it was a "spur of the moment" decision, but I am not sure it still counters the necessity to save Vulcan and his mother, especially when time is on Spock's side to prepare before they go back in time.

For Spock's plan to succeed, a cloaking devise would be necessary: and I am sure as the Federation ambassader to Romulus, Spock would have been involved in that "unsettling dispute" when the Federation was exposed for creating & using that "Pegasus" cloaking device, hence Spock would have knowledge of it.

I am sure Spock would have a couple more tricks up his sleeves to insure success like in the advancement that Voyager had aquired on her return home, hence "ablative armour" and multiphasic torpedoes and more.
The older Spock and the new Enterprise with her crew would be the "extra" advanced Exterprise and crew in that timeline. They know where they were & what they would be doing as well as the bad guys.

The catch would more than likely be asking the crew of the Enterprise into sacrificing their lives by breaking off ties with families, spouses, lovers, and friends along with Starfleet when they go back in time, because their other "selves" would belong to them more than their future selves would.

I mean, if they were successful in defeating Nero & the nemesis in the second movie along with Khan, they may save Vulcan, but they can never really go "home".

I would find this scenario for the third movie far more appealing: a rogue advanced Starship Enterprise hiding out as a "guardian angel" to the less advanced Enterprise. It could even be the spice into becoming a series.

Of course, what happens after Khan is anybody's guess as even the advanced Enterprise wouldn't know either. So both crew would be facing the unknown together.

Anyway, just explaining that the older Spock had time now to prepare for saving Vulcan & his mother. Now all he needs to do is ask the executive crewmembers of the Enterprise if they and the rest of her crew would deem sacrificing their personal lives and their homes into saving Vulcan.

Only the older Spock can convince the crew of what Starfleet have lost in the long run as he would be able to do if Earth was destroyed.

Heck, being on the Enterprise crew, they would know of its history and have a fondness for T'Pol, another vulcan, that served onboard under Captain Archer.

Since Vulcans have a longer lifespan and they do look younger than their actual age, it would be great if T-Pol was there to be "astonished" of the honour the crew was giving her for her service to Starfleet that they would give up their lives to save Vulcan.

Of course, if Jolene Blalock is unavailable, I suppose T'Pol's death on the planet Vulcan would "still" stir them to respond as it would be very personal to the crew of the Enterprise that they would want to save her as well as Vulcan.

Anyway... just explaining why it wouldn't track if they never really had the older Spock explained rationally & logically why he is not preparing for timetravelling to save Vulcan and his mother when time is on his side to do so.
What I don't want to see in the next Trek movie? Anything from the above. There is nothing to "fix". The other timeline is still intact. And even if they tried to "save Vulcan"--that would just create another split timeline--one where Vulcan was saved. It would not actually save the one that was destroyed.
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Old August 14 2013, 02:24 AM   #129
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Re: What you DON'T want to see in Star Trek 3

Ovation wrote: View Post
Enow wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post

The same thing that stops everyone time travelling whenever anything bad happens in any episode or movie?

Plus, if you go back you have to defeat Nero again and if you fail there...
I understand your point of view if it was a "spur of the moment" decision, but I am not sure it still counters the necessity to save Vulcan and his mother, especially when time is on Spock's side to prepare before they go back in time.

For Spock's plan to succeed, a cloaking devise would be necessary: and I am sure as the Federation ambassader to Romulus, Spock would have been involved in that "unsettling dispute" when the Federation was exposed for creating & using that "Pegasus" cloaking device, hence Spock would have knowledge of it.

I am sure Spock would have a couple more tricks up his sleeves to insure success like in the advancement that Voyager had aquired on her return home, hence "ablative armour" and multiphasic torpedoes and more.
The older Spock and the new Enterprise with her crew would be the "extra" advanced Exterprise and crew in that timeline. They know where they were & what they would be doing as well as the bad guys.

The catch would more than likely be asking the crew of the Enterprise into sacrificing their lives by breaking off ties with families, spouses, lovers, and friends along with Starfleet when they go back in time, because their other "selves" would belong to them more than their future selves would.

I mean, if they were successful in defeating Nero & the nemesis in the second movie along with Khan, they may save Vulcan, but they can never really go "home".

I would find this scenario for the third movie far more appealing: a rogue advanced Starship Enterprise hiding out as a "guardian angel" to the less advanced Enterprise. It could even be the spice into becoming a series.

Of course, what happens after Khan is anybody's guess as even the advanced Enterprise wouldn't know either. So both crew would be facing the unknown together.

Anyway, just explaining that the older Spock had time now to prepare for saving Vulcan & his mother. Now all he needs to do is ask the executive crewmembers of the Enterprise if they and the rest of her crew would deem sacrificing their personal lives and their homes into saving Vulcan.

Only the older Spock can convince the crew of what Starfleet have lost in the long run as he would be able to do if Earth was destroyed.

Heck, being on the Enterprise crew, they would know of its history and have a fondness for T'Pol, another vulcan, that served onboard under Captain Archer.

Since Vulcans have a longer lifespan and they do look younger than their actual age, it would be great if T-Pol was there to be "astonished" of the honour the crew was giving her for her service to Starfleet that they would give up their lives to save Vulcan.

Of course, if Jolene Blalock is unavailable, I suppose T'Pol's death on the planet Vulcan would "still" stir them to respond as it would be very personal to the crew of the Enterprise that they would want to save her as well as Vulcan.

Anyway... just explaining why it wouldn't track if they never really had the older Spock explained rationally & logically why he is not preparing for timetravelling to save Vulcan and his mother when time is on his side to do so.
What I don't want to see in the next Trek movie? Anything from the above. There is nothing to "fix". The other timeline is still intact. And even if they tried to "save Vulcan"--that would just create another split timeline--one where Vulcan was saved. It would not actually save the one that was destroyed.
The only way to "Fix" the timeline be to stop Spock and Nero from every being thrown back in time in the first place. You'd have to fix it in the Prime Timeline.
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Old August 14 2013, 02:27 AM   #130
Enow
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Re: What you DON'T want to see in Star Trek 3

BillJ wrote: View Post
Enow wrote: View Post

Anyway... just explaining why it wouldn't track if they never really had the older Spock explained rationally & logically why he is not preparing for timetravelling to save Vulcan and his mother when time is on his side to do so.
Because, the timeline split. His Mama and planet led full lives in another timeline.
Hoo boy. Here's hoping that younger Spock never finds out. The older Spock may want to return to his timeline if you are referring to that specific quantum signature universe where he actually belongs.
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Old August 14 2013, 02:35 AM   #131
Enow
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Re: What you DON'T want to see in Star Trek 3

Ovation wrote: View Post
What I don't want to see in the next Trek movie? Anything from the above. There is nothing to "fix". The other timeline is still intact. And even if they tried to "save Vulcan"--that would just create another split timeline--one where Vulcan was saved. It would not actually save the one that was destroyed.
So Kirk did not actually return to his timeline with two humpback whales in saving "his" planet earth?

No matter how you look at it: there is a quantum signature signifying the person's actual universe and then there is travelling within that quantum signature universe that changes everything.

Like in First Contact when Picard's Enterprise was caught in the wake of the Borg sphere going back in time seeing the changes it had made to his actual timeline.

But it is rather moot anyway since JJ isn't planning on doing another Star Trek movie last I heard so more than likely, there will be no Star Trek 3 at all.
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Old August 14 2013, 02:41 AM   #132
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Re: What you DON'T want to see in Star Trek 3

Abrams Trek seems to be playing by Back To The Future rules when it comes to time travel.
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Old August 14 2013, 02:46 AM   #133
Enow
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Re: What you DON'T want to see in Star Trek 3

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
The only way to "Fix" the timeline be to stop Spock and Nero from every being thrown back in time in the first place. You'd have to fix it in the Prime Timeline.
So that would mean.... hmmm...the temporal "police" would have to do it, but then they must be slacking on the job which seems highly unlikely a scenario.

It seems plausible that Spock was thrown in a parallel universe with a different quantum signature & sent back in time as well, which would mean no temporal police intervention when an event which occured outside the quantum signature universe would not be seen nor foreseen as a change in the timeline.

Mayhap a search for Spock by his remaining friends... Uhura, Sulu, Checkov, & Scotty to just come and get Spock and take him home then?
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Old August 14 2013, 02:54 AM   #134
Ovation
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Re: What you DON'T want to see in Star Trek 3

Enow wrote: View Post
Ovation wrote: View Post
What I don't want to see in the next Trek movie? Anything from the above. There is nothing to "fix". The other timeline is still intact. And even if they tried to "save Vulcan"--that would just create another split timeline--one where Vulcan was saved. It would not actually save the one that was destroyed.
So Kirk did not actually return to his timeline with two humpback whales in saving "his" planet earth?

No matter how you look at it: there is a quantum signature signifying the person's actual universe and then there is travelling within that quantum signature universe that changes everything.

Like in First Contact when Picard's Enterprise was caught in the wake of the Borg sphere going back in time seeing the changes it had made to his actual timeline.

But it is rather moot anyway since JJ isn't planning on doing another Star Trek movie last I heard so more than likely, there will be no Star Trek 3 at all.
There will be a third one.

As for Kirk and the whales--if one applies the time travel "rules" in Abrams' films, then Kirk did not return to his own future, but to a very similar one (the original he left behind had Earth perish). Same goes for First Contact.

We "see" the "return to the future/present" from the perspective of the main characters. They are our eyes and ears. With the infinitely available variations, the fact they don't notice they are in a slightly different universe makes it seem like they've returned to their original one. Again, if one uses the "rules" as established in Abrams' films to interpret the time travel.

Star Trek has never had one set of "rules" about time travel, though, so while I've found most of the various attempts to accommodate all the different kinds of time travel rules that have been used in the broad Trek universe (on screen and in print) interesting, I usually avoid trying to reconcile them all when I'm watching any particular time travel story. I just take the "rules" as given for that story and go with it.

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Abrams Trek seems to be playing by Back To The Future rules when it comes to time travel.
Really? It seems to be the opposite to me. Changing the past in 1955 puts Marty in danger of disappearing. In Abrams' version of time travel, Marty would simply be trapped in 1955 and have to live in the alternate universe his actions created.
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Old August 14 2013, 02:58 AM   #135
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Re: What you DON'T want to see in Star Trek 3

Enow wrote: View Post
The older Spock may want to return to his timeline ...
And he would accomplish this how?
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