RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 140,911
Posts: 5,477,989
Members: 25,052
Currently online: 511
Newest member: vova123

TrekToday headlines

New Star Trek Funko Pop! Vinyl Figures
By: T'Bonz on Nov 26

QMx Mini Phaser Ornament
By: T'Bonz on Nov 26

Stewart as Neo-Nazi Skinhead
By: T'Bonz on Nov 26

Klingon Bloodwine To Debut
By: T'Bonz on Nov 25

Trek Actors In War Of The Worlds Fundraiser
By: T'Bonz on Nov 25

Star Trek: The Next Generation Gag Reel Tease
By: T'Bonz on Nov 24

Shatner In Haven
By: T'Bonz on Nov 24

Retro Review: Covenant
By: Michelle on Nov 22

Two Official Starships Collection Previews
By: T'Bonz on Nov 21

Saldana: Women Issues In Hollywood
By: T'Bonz on Nov 21


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Tech

Trek Tech Pass me the quantum flux regulator, will you?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old August 15 2013, 05:50 AM   #136
Crazy Eddie
Rear Admiral
 
Crazy Eddie's Avatar
 
Location: I'm in your ___, ___ing your ___
Re: So many Mirandas/So few Constitution-refits?

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
It's more likely that the heyday of the Constitutions was around the time of the Cage and the entire class was already in the process of being replaced by the time TOS came around
That's not more really likely at all. A case could be made that the Constitution-class was in the process of being replaced by the time of Star Trek III, but its heyday was during TOS.
I really don't think so. When you consider that only ten years after TMP, the Enterprise was a training vessel and the lead ship of the class that (arguably) replaced it was "ready for trail runs" with a brand new drive system. The extensive refit of the Enterprise, also, is not indicative of a starship class that is still in its prime; quite the contrary, it's indicative of a design that is growing increasingly obsolete and has to be upgraded to remain in service at all (and even then, only for another ten or twelve years).

We know Enterprise wasn't a brand new ship under Kirk's command and depending on your interpretation of the Robert April background it wasn't even new under Pike. USS Defiant -- a Constitution of possibly similar age -- has a registry in the high 1700s. Starships in the 1800 range (Reliant and Saratoga, for example) should already have been in service for several years by the time Gary Mitchel's eyes started glowing. If Reliant is really 15 or 20 years old by the time we see it in Wrath of Khan -- and it very well could be -- it's quite likely that the ship was built and launched in that configuration and represented the state of the art for the 2060s; the TOS years, and the movie era immediately after, would be the heyday of the Mirandas, not the Constitutions.

Not saying Enterprise was an obsolete rustbucket or anything. But the ship goes into retirement WAY too soon for it to still be in its prime in TOS. It's enough to know, at least, that the original Enterprise is at least somewhat older than Kirk, and is ready for retirement WAY before he is.
__________________
The Complete Illustrated Guide to Starfleet - Online Now!
Crazy Eddie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 15 2013, 06:13 AM   #137
C.E. Evans
Vice Admiral
 
C.E. Evans's Avatar
 
Location: Ferguson, Missouri, USA
Re: So many Mirandas/So few Constitution-refits?

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
It's more likely that the heyday of the Constitutions was around the time of the Cage and the entire class was already in the process of being replaced by the time TOS came around
That's not more really likely at all. A case could be made that the Constitution-class was in the process of being replaced by the time of Star Trek III, but its heyday was during TOS.
I really don't think so. When you consider that only ten years after TMP, the Enterprise was a training vessel and the lead ship of the class that (arguably) replaced it was "ready for trail runs" with a brand new drive system. The extensive refit of the Enterprise, also, is not indicative of a starship class that is still in its prime; quite the contrary, it's indicative of a design that is growing increasingly obsolete and has to be upgraded to remain in service at all (and even then, only for another ten or twelve years).
Well, actually, I don't think so at all.

I think the Constitution-class was first introduced around 2240 or so--the design wasn't even 15 years old at the time of the Talos IV incident and was actually still in the first phase of its design life back then. By the time of Kirk's 5-year mission in the mid 2260s, the Constitution-class was in its prime.
__________________
"Don't sweat the small stuff--it makes you small-minded..."
C.E. Evans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 15 2013, 07:58 AM   #138
Tribble puncher
Commander
 
Tribble puncher's Avatar
 
Location: Lexington, KY
Re: So many Mirandas/So few Constitution-refits?

[/QUOTE]
But that would leave us missing an explanation for why the Enterprise-A was decommissioned only a handful of years after TFF.[/QUOTE]


Uhura was talking about the crew being Decommissioned (Retired from active "space" duty I guess?) when she got the Hail from Starfleet ordering them to return to Spacedock. Kirk said in his Log the ship itself would soon be under the care of another crew. So it's possible the Ship went out on another mission as the Enterprise, and was Renamed when the Frame of the Enterprise-B was laid down, finishing out her service life as the U.S.S. Whatever. then when the ship was retired, she was rechristened the Enterprise-A, restored to tne State she was in when she launched at the End of STIV, and parked at the Federation Museum. Thats my Theory.
Tribble puncher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 15 2013, 02:54 PM   #139
137th Gebirg
Rear Admiral
 
137th Gebirg's Avatar
 
Location: Who is John Galt?
Re: So many Mirandas/So few Constitution-refits?

I like this theory but now that I look at the actual dialog, it sounds a bit contradictory (the dialog, not the theory).

Uhura says:
Captain, I have orders from Starfleet Command. We're to put back into Spacedock immediately, ...to be decommissioned.
Then Kirk's final log entry says this:
Captain's log, U.S.S. Enterprise, stardate 9529.1. This is the final cruise of the Starship Enterprise under my command. This ship and her history will shortly become the care of another crew. To them and their posterity will we commit our future. They will continue the voyages we have begun and journey to all the undiscovered countries, boldly going where no man, where no one, ...has gone before.
Uhura's statement makes it sound like the ship is being decommissioned (being put back into Spacedock), along with the senior staff. I don't know how the US Navy does it, but I've never heard of people being "decommissioned" from service. "Retired", "mustered out", "DD-214'd", yes, but not "decommissioned". I thought that term was reserved only for equipment.

But then Kirk says "This is the final cruise of the Starship Enterprise under my command. This ship and her history will shortly become the care of another crew.", what you were referring to, Tribble Puncher.

I guess it could be legitimately argued that the E-A went on without Kirk & company, which would add to the impact of Spock's "go to hell" line. It's kind of a shitty thing to send out a broadcast message saying "guys, you're too old, get off our ship after you almost died saving the Federation from intergalactic war once again!" Then again, I guess this is what we can expect from an institution that openly advocated the highly unprofessional and uniquely demeaning concept of "Captain Dunsel".
__________________
Gebirgswick - Ind, Tra, Sec & Env.
137th Gebirg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 15 2013, 03:02 PM   #140
Praetor
Vice Admiral
 
Praetor's Avatar
 
Location: The fine line between continuity and fanwank.
Re: So many Mirandas/So few Constitution-refits?

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
That's not more really likely at all. A case could be made that the Constitution-class was in the process of being replaced by the time of Star Trek III, but its heyday was during TOS.
I really don't think so. When you consider that only ten years after TMP, the Enterprise was a training vessel and the lead ship of the class that (arguably) replaced it was "ready for trail runs" with a brand new drive system. The extensive refit of the Enterprise, also, is not indicative of a starship class that is still in its prime; quite the contrary, it's indicative of a design that is growing increasingly obsolete and has to be upgraded to remain in service at all (and even then, only for another ten or twelve years).
Well, actually, I don't think so at all.

I think the Constitution-class was first introduced around 2240 or so--the design wasn't even 15 years old at the time of the Talos IV incident and was actually still in the first phase of its design life back then. By the time of Kirk's 5-year mission in the mid 2260s, the Constitution-class was in its prime.
Eh, I could go either way on this one. I don't think the Enterprise was considered "old" in the 2260s, but surely Starfleet was at least beginning to plan her replacement. I'm not so sure I agree with Reliant being as old as you suggest, Crazy Eddie.

At the very least, in "The Cage" the Enterprise was considered one of "our new ships" per Mr. Tyler. Granted, this was in comparison to a ship that crashed in 2236, but he still said it with a certain sense of pride in his own ship, rather than disdain of the old.
__________________
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross; but it's not for the timid." - Q
Praetor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 15 2013, 04:31 PM   #141
C.E. Evans
Vice Admiral
 
C.E. Evans's Avatar
 
Location: Ferguson, Missouri, USA
Re: So many Mirandas/So few Constitution-refits?

Praetor wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
I really don't think so. When you consider that only ten years after TMP, the Enterprise was a training vessel and the lead ship of the class that (arguably) replaced it was "ready for trail runs" with a brand new drive system. The extensive refit of the Enterprise, also, is not indicative of a starship class that is still in its prime; quite the contrary, it's indicative of a design that is growing increasingly obsolete and has to be upgraded to remain in service at all (and even then, only for another ten or twelve years).
Well, actually, I don't think so at all.

I think the Constitution-class was first introduced around 2240 or so--the design wasn't even 15 years old at the time of the Talos IV incident and was actually still in the first phase of its design life back then. By the time of Kirk's 5-year mission in the mid 2260s, the Constitution-class was in its prime.
Eh, I could go either way on this one. I don't think the Enterprise was considered "old" in the 2260s, but surely Starfleet was at least beginning to plan her replacement.
I don't think so much as a replacement, but as a general rule of thumb, Starfleet is always developing the next new starship class, incorporating new systems and/or lessons learned from current ones. In TNG's "Booby Trap," Starfleet already had ideas to be implemented into the next design after the Galaxy-class, even though the Galaxy-class was still fairly new at the time.
__________________
"Don't sweat the small stuff--it makes you small-minded..."
C.E. Evans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 15 2013, 04:58 PM   #142
Tomalak
Vice Admiral
 
Tomalak's Avatar
 
Location: Liverpool
View Tomalak's Twitter Profile
Re: So many Mirandas/So few Constitution-refits?

137th Gebirg wrote: View Post
But then Kirk says "This is the final cruise of the Starship Enterprise under my command. This ship and her history will shortly become the care of another crew.", what you were referring to, Tribble Puncher.
Kirk's speaking figuratively rather than literally. He's talking about "this ship" in terms of the Enterprise legacy, as he's presumably aware the Enterprise-B is on the drawing board. It doesn't make sense in this context if the A was simply renamed USS Richard M Nixon and carried on trucking.
__________________
She bought her first new car and you hit her with a drunk driver. What, is that supposed to be funny?
Tomalak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 15 2013, 05:20 PM   #143
SicOne
Commodore
 
Location: Omaha, NE
Re: So many Mirandas/So few Constitution-refits?

Yeah, and I'm thinking that retiring the Enterprise-A and displaying her in a museum with battle scars intact from the Khitomer actions would also demonstrate Federation dedication to keeping the peace. And it lets the ship be decommissioned on a high note, to say nothing of allowing the Enterprise name to be shifted to an Excelsior (presumably, by this time the Excelsior's teething problems are well behind her).
SicOne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 15 2013, 05:53 PM   #144
blueziggy
Lieutenant
 
Re: So many Mirandas/So few Constitution-refits?

i like to think that the Enterprise in its current state, a ship that was widely known to the Klingons as a battlecruiser (see STIII), was decommissioned as a symbolic ending of hostilities between the Federation and the Empire.

putting the name on a new vessel that wasnt designed as a warship (one could argue) wouldnt be considered an insult to the Klingons either.

as for why there seem to be so many mirandas, i just think they were cheaper to make.
blueziggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 15 2013, 06:42 PM   #145
Crazy Eddie
Rear Admiral
 
Crazy Eddie's Avatar
 
Location: I'm in your ___, ___ing your ___
Re: So many Mirandas/So few Constitution-refits?

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
That's not more really likely at all. A case could be made that the Constitution-class was in the process of being replaced by the time of Star Trek III, but its heyday was during TOS.
I really don't think so. When you consider that only ten years after TMP, the Enterprise was a training vessel and the lead ship of the class that (arguably) replaced it was "ready for trail runs" with a brand new drive system. The extensive refit of the Enterprise, also, is not indicative of a starship class that is still in its prime; quite the contrary, it's indicative of a design that is growing increasingly obsolete and has to be upgraded to remain in service at all (and even then, only for another ten or twelve years).
Well, actually, I don't think so at all.

I think the Constitution-class was first introduced around 2240 or so--the design wasn't even 15 years old at the time of the Talos IV incident...
That assumes that the Enterprise was the first -- or even ONE of the first -- of the entire class ever built. That seems extremely unlikely to me since we see one ship that appears to be a Constitution class with a registry of 1017. Given that everything else we've seen higher than 1764 is a different class vessel, it's more likely Enterprise and Defiant were some of the LAST ships off the Constitution production line.

I'll buy that Enterprise was fifteen years old when it arrived at Talos-IV... but the entire class? In the TOS years, we've seen ships constructed five or ten years apart separated by registries of only three or four hundred; the original Constellation is seven hundred ahead of the Enterprise and is at least fifteen years older, while the four-nacelled replacement (NX-1974) was probably already completing its testing when its namesake was destroyed by the Doomsday Machine and Starfleet simply transferred the name to the new ship just like they had with the Enterprise.

By the time of Kirk's 5-year mission in the mid 2260s, the Constitution-class was in its prime.
Its semi-retirement only twenty years later belies this claim, considering both the Miranda and the Excelsiors and even the Constellations remained in service for another hundred years. If the Constitution class was really in its prime in the 2260s, then its early retirement might very well be indicative of the problem: severe lack of durability over time leads to a very short-lived spaceframe that has to be replaced or overhauled too often to be economical.

OTOH, the service life of the Enterprise post-TMP give us some clues that the Constitutions were no longer fit for front line duty by then, and we're simply speculating as to WHY. The fully refitted Enterprise should have been good for at least another twenty years after the TMP upgrade, but only a decade later the ship is a training vessel due to be decommissioned; and even in TMP, Kirk only got command of the ship in the first place by using the V'ger emergency as an excuse and then stayed on for the shakedown cruise. For all we know, the only reason Enterprise got its refit in the first place is so the cadets could get used to the kind of technology they'd be seeing on the Mirandas and Constellations.
__________________
The Complete Illustrated Guide to Starfleet - Online Now!
Crazy Eddie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 15 2013, 07:00 PM   #146
C.E. Evans
Vice Admiral
 
C.E. Evans's Avatar
 
Location: Ferguson, Missouri, USA
Re: So many Mirandas/So few Constitution-refits?

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
I really don't think so. When you consider that only ten years after TMP, the Enterprise was a training vessel and the lead ship of the class that (arguably) replaced it was "ready for trail runs" with a brand new drive system. The extensive refit of the Enterprise, also, is not indicative of a starship class that is still in its prime; quite the contrary, it's indicative of a design that is growing increasingly obsolete and has to be upgraded to remain in service at all (and even then, only for another ten or twelve years).
Well, actually, I don't think so at all.

I think the Constitution-class was first introduced around 2240 or so--the design wasn't even 15 years old at the time of the Talos IV incident...
That assumes that the Enterprise was the first -- or even ONE of the first -- of the entire class ever built.
Indeed so, and why not? Starfleet hull registries are all over the place in range and aren't always consecutive. It could easily be a case that the Enterprise was the second Constitution-class ship built, with the Constellation either an earlier ship later upgraded to Constitution-class or a later ship just assigned a lower registry number (for all intents and purposes, Starfleet hull registries are just code numbers that have little or nothing to do with a ship's chronological commissioning).
By the time of Kirk's 5-year mission in the mid 2260s, the Constitution-class was in its prime.
Its semi-retirement only twenty years later belies this claim, considering both the Miranda and the Excelsiors and even the Constellations remained in service for another hundred years.
Not at all, because those designs could be the rare exceptions rather than the rule for starship design lifetimes. The Constitution-class may have only had an initial design life of 30-35 years, with the refit program extending it for another 15-20.
__________________
"Don't sweat the small stuff--it makes you small-minded..."
C.E. Evans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 15 2013, 07:02 PM   #147
137th Gebirg
Rear Admiral
 
137th Gebirg's Avatar
 
Location: Who is John Galt?
Re: So many Mirandas/So few Constitution-refits?

Perhaps the Constellation (NCC-1017) was the one refit from an earlier type of Constitution, serving as a testbed for components that would eventually become the Connies we all know and love in TOS. Following that, based on an earlier discussion here, the Enterprise (NCC-1701) become the one "freshly built" Connie of her area to be the new "refit" for the testbed of next-generation parts that would eventually build production-run batch of Connie's like the replacement Enterprise (NCC-1701-A), until the entire fleet of all Connies, old and new, were deprecated by the Excelsior class.

Edit: Whoops - looks like C.E. Evans wrote pretty much the same thing at the exact time that I did.
__________________
Gebirgswick - Ind, Tra, Sec & Env.
137th Gebirg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 15 2013, 07:09 PM   #148
Crazy Eddie
Rear Admiral
 
Crazy Eddie's Avatar
 
Location: I'm in your ___, ___ing your ___
Re: So many Mirandas/So few Constitution-refits?

Praetor wrote: View Post
I'm not so sure I agree with Reliant being as old as you suggest, Crazy Eddie.
I could see the question about the Reliant, but the the Miranda class itself is a bit younger than the Constellation class. They are close enough in registry to be concurrent, but then so are the Constitutions. We know that all three classes were in service together in the 2280s, and we have reason to believe the Mirandas were active in the 70s. Given how little we know about their design history, there is ZERO reason to suspect they weren't already in service together in the 60s as well, especially given Enterprise's previous history.

At the very least, in "The Cage" the Enterprise was considered one of "our new ships" per Mr. Tyler.
Apart from the obvious implication that Columbia was a pre-warp vessel (time warp vs. non-time warp), there's the fact that Tyler never calls Enterprise "new." He says

"And you won't believe how fast you can get back. Well the time barrier's been broken. Our new ships can-- GIRL!"
Okay, I improvised the last part, but he starts talking about "our new ships" before Vina's hotness breaks his concentration.

Our new ships can WHAT? Travel faster than light? Travel faster than yours? Or maybe "Our new ships can get you back to Earth in just a couple of days!"
__________________
The Complete Illustrated Guide to Starfleet - Online Now!
Crazy Eddie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 15 2013, 07:23 PM   #149
Crazy Eddie
Rear Admiral
 
Crazy Eddie's Avatar
 
Location: I'm in your ___, ___ing your ___
Re: So many Mirandas/So few Constitution-refits?

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
Well, actually, I don't think so at all.

I think the Constitution-class was first introduced around 2240 or so--the design wasn't even 15 years old at the time of the Talos IV incident...
That assumes that the Enterprise was the first -- or even ONE of the first -- of the entire class ever built.
Indeed so, and why not? Starfleet hull registries are all over the place in range and aren't always consecutive.
If you're gonna go down that road, then Reliant could easily be older than Enterprise and we have literally nothing else to go on other than the most superficial of visual cues.

Besides, the registries have seemed to be pretty consistent in the TOS/TMP era. It's only in TNG+ that they start to get weird.

By the time of Kirk's 5-year mission in the mid 2260s, the Constitution-class was in its prime.
Its semi-retirement only twenty years later belies this claim, considering both the Miranda and the Excelsiors and even the Constellations remained in service for another hundred years.
Not at all, because those designs could be the rare exceptions rather than the rule for starship design lifetimes.
They're not.

The Excelsior, the Miranda, the Constellation, the K'Tinga/D7 and the Klingon bird of prey all remain in service for well over a hundred years (not just ship classes; we have seen individual vessels 80 to 100 years old still in active service). Various upgrades and modifications keep these designs in service, some more heavily upgraded than others. Obviously, an attempt was made to upgrade the Constitution class as well, but for reasons unknown those upgrades did not extend its life into the 24th century. So either the Constitution is the exception to the rule -- one of the very few starship designs with a short useful lifespan -- or the Constitution class has the same lifespan as the Excelsior and Miranda and we just happen to be seeing the very end of it.

The Constitution-class may have only had an initial design life of 30-35 years, with the refit program extending it for another 15-20.
From what we can tell, the Excelsior and Mirandas managed to get by without an extensive stem-to-stern refit program, and we have not seen any other starship class so extensively rebuilt. Again, in this regard, Constitution is the exception rather than the rule.

I don't believe anymore that the refit was intended to extend the Enterprise's service life. I think the ship was rebuilt BECAUSE its service life was over and they wanted to test some new techologies on a starship that was finished venturing into deep space. This also explains what was wrong with the Enterprise-A; the ship's systems were falling apart because everything on it was experimental (whereas the 1701_ had been fitted out with what had become "standard" equipment to test a new engine design).
__________________
The Complete Illustrated Guide to Starfleet - Online Now!
Crazy Eddie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 15 2013, 07:42 PM   #150
Praetor
Vice Admiral
 
Praetor's Avatar
 
Location: The fine line between continuity and fanwank.
Re: So many Mirandas/So few Constitution-refits?

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
I don't think so much as a replacement, but as a general rule of thumb, Starfleet is always developing the next new starship class, incorporating new systems and/or lessons learned from current ones. In TNG's "Booby Trap," Starfleet already had ideas to be implemented into the next design after the Galaxy-class, even though the Galaxy-class was still fairly new at the time.
Well, I'll give you that. I guess I was thinking of having at the very least something on paper saying "The NX-2000 will be our prototype to replace the Constitution class." And, of course, the technological hodgepodge you mention. Some pencil pusher somewhere probably had a doc of mission requirements and tech specs that were being added on to for the new class, even if no work was being done.

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
I could see the question about the Reliant, but the the Miranda class itself is a bit younger than the Constellation class. They are close enough in registry to be concurrent, but then so are the Constitutions. We know that all three classes were in service together in the 2280s, and we have reason to believe the Mirandas were active in the 70s. Given how little we know about their design history, there is ZERO reason to suspect they weren't already in service together in the 60s as well, especially given Enterprise's previous history.
Agreed - I think the question really becomes were they ever refit to TMP-era specs, or were they built that way? Lately, I've come to favor built that way. Maybe NCC-1500 was a similar "frigate" class which represented a mid-step between the previous generation and this one, that was simply retired in favor of Mirandas.

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
Apart from the obvious implication that Columbia was a pre-warp vessel (time warp vs. non-time warp), there's the fact that Tyler never calls Enterprise "new." He says

"And you won't believe how fast you can get back. Well the time barrier's been broken. Our new ships can-- GIRL!"
Okay, I improvised the last part, but he starts talking about "our new ships" before Vina's hotness breaks his concentration.

Our new ships can WHAT? Travel faster than light? Travel faster than yours? Or maybe "Our new ships can get you back to Earth in just a couple of days!"
I knew I was opening a can of gagh with this one. (Very accurate improvisation, btw. )

True, Jose never explicitly says "by new ship, I'm talking about the Enterprise." Also true, the writer's intention at the time was probably that the Columbia didn't have "time warp." I think, though, that the implication is clear that Jose means that the Enterprise is one of "our new ships." Also, the way he delivers the line indicates some degree of "our ship belongs to a newer, better type." Of course, it's highly relative.

Regarding the TMP refit, I think a core question remains: was the Enterprise refit performed to extend the life of the class, or was the refit performed because the Enterprise happened to be the choice to testbed new tech?
__________________
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross; but it's not for the timid." - Q
Praetor is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:03 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.