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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Deep Space Nine

Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

View Poll Results: Strongest ship in the Federation fleet during the Dominion War
Galaxy Class 24 77.42%
Defiant Class 5 16.13%
Akira Class 1 3.23%
Excelsior Class 0 0%
Steamrunner Class 0 0%
Norway Class 1 3.23%
Voters: 31. You may not vote on this poll

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Old August 6 2013, 04:45 PM   #46
Richard Baker
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Re: What is the strongest ship in the Federation fleet in the Dominion

I am voting for the Akira class - it has some unique design features which unfortunately were not shown well on screen. It has 15 torpedo launchers - the roll-bar pod has them facing multiple directions and the primary hull has twin sets aimed port and starboard. I can just see to warp-jumping into an enemy formation, firing in all directions and warping out again. The number of launchers seems huge, but when you look at the model that is the correct number. It also has a forward launching and stern receiving shuttle system- it can deploy combat shuttles into combat and protect them when they return with the catamaran hulls. The ship is about the size of a Galaxy class saucer but has six type 10 phaser banks and a consolidated design,everything tucked in with the bridge protected by the hull shapes on each side.
IMO one of the best ship designs added to the fleet in First Contact and never given decent screen time- either it was too new to appear in numbers or they thought it might upstage that shampoo bottle Sisko flew.
(sorry for that dig but I never did care for the Defiant that much...)
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Old August 7 2013, 10:13 PM   #47
Timo
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Re: What is the strongest ship in the Federation fleet in the Dominion

The odd thing about the Akira is that most of its supposed torpedo tubes are never seen firing, even when they rightfully should: there's no reason not to fire a full load of (at least forward) weapons at the essentially unresisting Borg at Picard's say-so.

Also, the design only appears to have three phaser strips, failing to cover most of the aft angles.

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Old August 7 2013, 11:12 PM   #48
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Re: What is the strongest ship in the Federation fleet in the Dominion

Timo wrote: View Post
Probably. The "I thought Starfleet didn't believe in warships?" quip by Kira was always undeserving of an answer, containing in itself the implication that Starfleet has plenty of warships it shies away from properly designating as such...

Timo Saloniemi
This, a thousand times this.
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Old August 8 2013, 03:21 AM   #49
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Re: What is the strongest ship in the Federation fleet in the Dominion

Slightly off topic, I wish that DS9 had used an All Good Things Galaxy refit in WYLB!
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Old August 8 2013, 11:56 AM   #50
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Re: What is the strongest ship in the Federation fleet in the Dominion

TheSubCommander wrote: View Post
Slightly off topic, I wish that DS9 had used an All Good Things Galaxy refit in WYLB!
They should have, I mean why not?
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Old August 8 2013, 03:16 PM   #51
Richard Baker
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Re: What is the strongest ship in the Federation fleet in the Dominion

Timo wrote: View Post
The odd thing about the Akira is that most of its supposed torpedo tubes are never seen firing, even when they rightfully should: there's no reason not to fire a full load of (at least forward) weapons at the essentially unresisting Borg at Picard's say-so.

Also, the design only appears to have three phaser strips, failing to cover most of the aft angles.

Timo Saloniemi
Picard arrived in mid battle- the Akira shown might have almost emptied it's magazines by then...
I need to pull out the 1/1400 scale model I have and check the details- some of the Phasers might just be short segments like on the aft secondary hull on the Galaxy class.
I do think the ship was well designed to fight, but it was not a hero ship and you cannot upstage the focal point in a show...
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Old August 8 2013, 03:22 PM   #52
Richard Baker
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Re: What is the strongest ship in the Federation fleet in the Dominion

bbjeg wrote: View Post
TheSubCommander wrote: View Post
Slightly off topic, I wish that DS9 had used an All Good Things Galaxy refit in WYLB!
They should have, I mean why not?
It would have been cool I think, but logically if you were trying to put as many ships into combat as you can, spending resources on a refit does not make sense. also, the Refit Galaxy class was from the future, the massive beam of death mega phaser might not be fielded yet.
In the section on the DS-9 Tech Manual with the Dominion War ships it was mentioned that many of the Galaxy class ships seen in the fleet were not complete vessels- some had 65% of there internal volume empty. The idea was to get ships into the fight, even if it was a cobbled up hull with just engines and some weapons. I know the DS-9 Tech Manual is not canon, but that does make sense.
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Old August 8 2013, 05:06 PM   #53
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Re: What is the strongest ship in the Federation fleet in the Dominion

Rewatching Call to Arms last night, it occurs to me that the Galaxies don't put up a big showing. In this episode, and it seems in others, the Galaxies do significant damage against the larger Dominion and Cardassian ships. However, they are always turning away from the front line. They never "punch through," which seems to be the Allies' objective in bigger battles. Of course, their are production reasons for this: it looks good to have the ship sweep back while the phasers on the underside are firing, and visual effects tended to be reused. However, it undermines the argument that the Galaxies were difference makers in the war.
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Old August 9 2013, 03:35 AM   #54
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Re: What is the strongest ship in the Federation fleet in the Dominion

Timo wrote: View Post
The odd thing about the Akira is that most of its supposed torpedo tubes are never seen firing, even when they rightfully should: there's no reason not to fire a full load of (at least forward) weapons at the essentially unresisting Borg at Picard's say-so.

Also, the design only appears to have three phaser strips, failing to cover most of the aft angles.

Timo Saloniemi
Exactly. An Akira class vessel is supposed to have a total of 15 torpedo tubes.
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Old August 9 2013, 02:13 PM   #55
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Re: What is the strongest ship in the Federation fleet in the Dominion

^Unless that's explicitly stated on screen, it's not cannon.

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Old August 9 2013, 03:01 PM   #56
Richard Baker
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Re: What is the strongest ship in the Federation fleet in the Dominion

They are shown on the cgi model used in the film. It does not need to be spoken to be canon.
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Old August 9 2013, 03:15 PM   #57
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Re: What is the strongest ship in the Federation fleet in the Dominion

Do we actually see fifteen of them?

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Old August 9 2013, 06:06 PM   #58
Praetor
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Re: What is the strongest ship in the Federation fleet in the Dominion

I guess this is also the appropriate time to discuss Galaxy Wings? Memory Alpha speculates that they are made up entirely of Galaxy class starships, and dialog indicates there were wings numbered Nine-One and Nine-Three. I presume this to mean Ninth Fleet, Wing One, and Ninth Fleet, Group Three. It gets a lot messier (and Starfleet a log bigger) if it's ninety-one and ninety-three. Memory Alpha also asserts that analysis of this battle shows ten discernible Galaxy class starships.

IIRC, the DS9 TM speculates that the other six Galaxy class spaceframes that had been partially constructed, were rushed to completion to meet the Dominion threat. Accounting for the destruction of the Enterprise, Odyssey, and Yamato, that gives us a potential nine, unless there's another batch of six and therefore fifteen total. I don't believe we've ever actually seen a Galaxy that could not have been from the original batch, have we? (VGR's Challenger appeared to be from the first batch, if registy counts. Which it doesn't, really.) Speaking of VGR, how many Galaxys did we see in "Endgame?" So if MA is correct and there are 10 separate ships, at the very least we have to conclude there was one more six-batch to account for Galaxy 10.

I see no reason why the aforementioned Galaxy wings need to be made solely of Galaxys, either. Why could it not be a Galaxy class ship and its escorts, forming a battle group, which is asserted in the article comments on MA? Other battle groups might be Ambassador wings or Excelsior wings, with the titular ships forming center in each. Having enough Galaxys to create entire wings of them creates an IMO unrealistic presentation of Starfleet based on everything else we've seen.

On the other hand, if Starfleet really does have a hundred or more Galaxy class starships, that explains why we don't see many Ambassadors or other ship classes in large numbers, doesn't it?
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Old August 10 2013, 04:14 AM   #59
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Re: What is the strongest ship in the Federation fleet in the Dominion

Sran wrote: View Post
^Unless that's explicitly stated on screen, it's not cannon.

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It's canon not cannon. And anyways it's called using your eyes and that the Akira class was in a sense a "torpedo cruiser".
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Old August 10 2013, 12:22 PM   #60
Jono
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Re: What is the strongest ship in the Federation fleet in the Dominion

Sran wrote: View Post
Do we actually see fifteen of them?

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Richard Baker wrote: View Post
They are shown on the cgi model used in the film. It does not need to be spoken to be canon.
Funny thing is the 15 torpedo launchers is from designer who also dubbed the Akira as a "fighter carrier" and if you look at the model itself you actually get a different number. It looks like it has an additional 6 launchers facing aft in the rear pod, and 4 more (2 port, 2 starboard) on the lower half of the saucer. So going by the model you have 25 launchers instead of a modest 15.

As for being a fighter carrier, the designer described it has having a through-deck shuttlebay. Which is also questionable as what are meant to be the forward launch doors when scaled to the apparent size of the Akira wouldn't be very big and some of the bigger shuttles would struggle to fit through.

I guess it comes down to how much stock you put into the intentions of the designer versus what you see on screen. To be fair I guess you can say there is enough to suggest, but nothing that explicitly states that the Akira doesn't have 15+ launchers.

Praetor wrote: View Post
I guess this is also the appropriate time to discuss Galaxy Wings? Memory Alpha speculates that they are made up entirely of Galaxy class starships, and dialog indicates there were wings numbered Nine-One and Nine-Three. I presume this to mean Ninth Fleet, Wing One, and Ninth Fleet, Group Three.
Given that the Ninth Fleet failed to make it to the battle it is unlikely the wings were from the Ninth Fleet.

Last edited by Jono; August 10 2013 at 07:29 PM.
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