RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 140,184
Posts: 5,436,047
Members: 24,947
Currently online: 668
Newest member: CaptainJaymez

TrekToday headlines

Trek Screenwriter Washington D.C. Appearance
By: T'Bonz on Oct 23

Two Official Starships Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Oct 22

Pine In New Skit
By: T'Bonz on Oct 21

Stewart In Holiday Film
By: T'Bonz on Oct 21

The Red Shirt Diaries #8
By: T'Bonz on Oct 20

IDW Publishing January Comics
By: T'Bonz on Oct 20

Retro Review: Chrysalis
By: Michelle on Oct 18

The Next Generation Season Seven Blu-ray Details
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

CBS Launches Streaming Service
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

Yelchin In New Indie Thriller
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old August 6 2013, 02:05 AM   #106
sonak
Vice Admiral
 
Location: in a figment of a mediocre mind's imagination
Re: When did the perception of Insurrection change?

DonIago wrote: View Post
Yeah, unfortunately there are so many gaffes within the film itself that it's hard to have a well-founded discussion about it because so much comes down to information we're not given but realistically should have been.

it's ironic since the film obviously wanted a simple "black and white" scenario for a lighter and smaller-scale movie that the premise was so messed up.

All they had to do was change the premise to something like wanting to remove the Baku for a different reason, like to use the planet as a base for the war or something and NOT have the stakes be " medical treatment for billions".
sonak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 6 2013, 02:10 AM   #107
bullethead
Fleet Captain
 
bullethead's Avatar
 
Re: When did the perception of Insurrection change?

MacLeod wrote: View Post
It might be if you truly believe in your principals. Sometimes upholding your principals/ethics etc.. can put you in a weaker position.
Hell, Picard points this out in Descent, Part 1. I know Piller was off the show at that point, but it does show the lack of familiarity he had with the characters when he wrote the movie. What we get in the movie does fit Gene's/Hollywood's bizarre "competence and pragmatism = evil" mindset though, which is really bizarre in this movie because the pragmatic admiral was going for solutions that would kill less people, while the Enterprise crew wound up causing tons of people to get hurt or die.
__________________
A business man and engineer discuss how to launch a communications satellite in the 1960s:
Biz Dev Guy: Your communications satellite has to be the size, shape, and weight of a hydrogen bomb.
bullethead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 6 2013, 02:13 AM   #108
DonIago
Rear Admiral
 
Location: Burlington, VT, USA
View DonIago's Twitter Profile Send a message via ICQ to DonIago Send a message via AIM to DonIago Send a message via Yahoo to DonIago
Re: When did the perception of Insurrection change?

^^In that regard they would have been better off dropping the blood feud angle. Sure you lose the mildly happy ending but you also lose a lot of the ambiguity regarding the Son'a if there's no argument to be made that they have any right to be there.
__________________
--DonIago
It was the best of Trek, it was the worst of Trek...
"If I lean over, I leave myself open to wedgies, wet willies, or even the dreaded Rear Admiral!"
DonIago is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 6 2013, 02:16 AM   #109
The Overlord
Captain
 
Re: When did the perception of Insurrection change?

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
SeerSGB wrote: View Post

A resource that could cure billions suffering from a war is not a luxury resource. And it's certainly not something you put the sentiment and feelings of 600 over.
Again, the film does not state the radiation won't be used. The only thing the film shows is that the Ba'ku are not killed because of greed.

The Federation can get all those wounded to the other side of the planet for shore leave.
Or better yet study the radiation to figure out how to make it themselves I mean the federation did used to have the technology to make planets.

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
2) You think the space-hippies would put up with that if they found out?
Well seeing as they were never asked about the possibility we don't know.
Okay, then why didn't someone ask the Ba'ku if they were willing to leave? Because if they said no, they would seem like selfish jerks and if they said yes, there would be no movie.

There is too many unexplained plot holes for this movie to work, how did the Ba'ku defeat the Son'a if they didn't believe n violence and why didn't the Son'a set up their own colony in another part of the planet after being exiled from the village? The story is so filled with holes, it doesn't work.
The Overlord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 6 2013, 03:20 AM   #110
SeerSGB
Admiral
 
SeerSGB's Avatar
 
Location: Out There...That Away
View SeerSGB's Twitter Profile
Re: When did the perception of Insurrection change?

sonak wrote: View Post
DonIago wrote: View Post
Yeah, unfortunately there are so many gaffes within the film itself that it's hard to have a well-founded discussion about it because so much comes down to information we're not given but realistically should have been.

it's ironic since the film obviously wanted a simple "black and white" scenario for a lighter and smaller-scale movie that the premise was so messed up.

All they had to do was change the premise to something like wanting to remove the Baku for a different reason, like to use the planet as a base for the war or something and NOT have the stakes be " medical treatment for billions".
Yeppers. When you make the stake: 600 people (non native) having to move to save billions dying in a war, most people are going to side with billions. They made the number to high to even question, even the high thousands would make most people go "Hmm, yeah, I think the 600 need to move". It was the wrong plot device by a long shot.
__________________
- SeerSGB -
"I've made many mistakes, and it's about time that I did something about that." The Doctor (Deep Breath)
| Blog | Homepage |
SeerSGB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 6 2013, 03:29 AM   #111
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: When did the perception of Insurrection change?

I still think it would have been better if they had went with the planet having a valuable ore that was the basis of Federation medical technology. Which was running out due to the Feds being cut off from the worlds that supply it and high casualties.
__________________
"If I hadn't tried, the cost would have been my soul." - Admiral James T. Kirk, Star Trek III: The Search for Spock
BillJ is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 6 2013, 03:37 AM   #112
Dream
Admiral
 
Dream's Avatar
 
Re: When did the perception of Insurrection change?

The problem with these Fountain of Youth storylines is that the heroes can never find it or never get to keep it once they discover it, since it changes things too much for future storylines. It ends up being ignored and a huge waste of time.
Dream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 6 2013, 04:17 AM   #113
sonak
Vice Admiral
 
Location: in a figment of a mediocre mind's imagination
Re: When did the perception of Insurrection change?

BillJ wrote: View Post
I still think it would have been better if they had went with the planet having a valuable ore that was the basis of Federation medical technology. Which was running out due to the Feds being cut off from the worlds that supply it and high casualties.

eh, I still think that makes the decision to move them too easy.

Anything related to medical needs that benefit billions during a war is going to take precedence.

If it was only a small advantage like a strategically-located base, or some kind of resource to build certain weapons or something, then you could just sit back and say "not a big deal either way, let's just enjoy the show."


As it is, at the "happy ending" all I can think of are the billions that won't get treatment, and the Son'a that are going to die.
__________________
"why oh why didn't I take the blue pill?"
sonak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 6 2013, 09:25 PM   #114
Opus
Commodore
 
Opus's Avatar
 
Location: Bloom County
Re: When did the perception of Insurrection change?

The fix was in when Rick Berman proclaimed they couldn't out-do the Borg, so they weren't going to try.
__________________
Now that I've seen it, and have also had time to mellow, to really think about it, I now find it absolutely, unbearably repulsive in every way except for some of the acting. - about The Wrath of Khan. Interstat, Issue 62: 1982
Opus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 7 2013, 04:20 AM   #115
M.A.C.O.
Fleet Captain
 
M.A.C.O.'s Avatar
 
Re: When did the perception of Insurrection change?

Would a film with Q have worked you think?

Also I know this has been said enough times, but could a Dominion conflict have been the focus for INS? I think INS could've worked if the villains were more of a threat/engaging. Watching INS all i see is a bunch of thug aliens who have an addiction to plastic surgery.

Maybe keep the original title which was Star Trek Stardust.

http://trekweb.com/articles/2010/01/...rrection.shtml
M.A.C.O. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 13 2013, 10:48 PM   #116
Captain_Q
Lieutenant Junior Grade
 
Location: 221 B Baker Street
Re: When did the perception of Insurrection change?

Just gonna say that Insurrection is my favorite Star Trek movie. *Hides under a forcefield to escape the hate.
__________________
“How many people does it take, Admiral, before it becomes wrong? Hmm? A thousand, fifty thousand, a million? How many people does it take, Admiral!"
I'm just here to be around like minded people talking about Star Trek, not to make them upset.
Captain_Q is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 14 2013, 12:40 AM   #117
Praetor
Vice Admiral
 
Praetor's Avatar
 
Location: The fine line between continuity and fanwank.
Re: When did the perception of Insurrection change?

Well, at least tell us why before the phaser barrage commences.
__________________
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross; but it's not for the timid." - Q
Praetor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 14 2013, 01:58 AM   #118
sonak
Vice Admiral
 
Location: in a figment of a mediocre mind's imagination
Re: When did the perception of Insurrection change?

Captain_Q wrote: View Post
Just gonna say that Insurrection is my favorite Star Trek movie. *Hides under a forcefield to escape the hate.

interesting. Of course I've heard from fans who liked it, but I don't think I've EVER heard from one who regarded it as their favorite.
__________________
"why oh why didn't I take the blue pill?"
sonak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 14 2013, 04:33 AM   #119
Captain_Q
Lieutenant Junior Grade
 
Location: 221 B Baker Street
Re: When did the perception of Insurrection change?

Well Picard sings along with Data(best moment of my life), and the whole thing just feels like an episode, the way TNG used to feel. I can see the point of why some people don't like it, but I have learned to overlook the flaws in these movies and just not give a darn. Don't even get me started on the last two remakes, now those I can hate on but when I take a step back I admit that they're good movies. What I liked about Insurrection was that there wasn't a whole lot of violence, yes there's some fighting but it's not like blood and guts everywhere type of thing. It's a movie where I don't have to go shitshitshitshitshitshit someone's going to die soon! Yes there's the "needs of the many outway the needs of the few" thing, but this place had became this peoples' home even though they weren't native. I just appreciated Picard's view on the situation, as you can see in my signature one of my favorite quotes from the movie that basically sums up the point for me. As I'm typing this I realize it probably doesn't make any sense, but it's still my favorite Trek movie.
__________________
“How many people does it take, Admiral, before it becomes wrong? Hmm? A thousand, fifty thousand, a million? How many people does it take, Admiral!"
I'm just here to be around like minded people talking about Star Trek, not to make them upset.
Captain_Q is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 14 2013, 04:41 AM   #120
Maurice
Vice Admiral
 
Maurice's Avatar
 
Location: Maurice in San Francisco
View Maurice's Twitter Profile
Re: When did the perception of Insurrection change?

My perception of Insurrection never changed. I disliked it when I saw it in the theater and I'll never watch it again. It was dull and uninteresting and certainly remains so.
__________________
* * *
"The road to hell is paved with works-in-progress."
—Philip Roth
Maurice is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
ins, insurrection

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:21 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.