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Old August 1 2013, 07:05 AM   #31
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Re: Trek.com's "Finale" poll

JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
All Good Things winning is not surprising, but Endgame coming in second is a surprise. Endgame over What You Leave Behind, really?

Sure it's way better than Turnabout Intruder or These Are The Voyages, but it seemed more like they crammed the major themes of season 4-7 into an episode in an uninspired way than actually concluded the series.
It just goes to show you that VOY might be more popular than DS9 with casual audiences.
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Old August 1 2013, 01:03 PM   #32
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Re: Trek.com's "Finale" poll

Dream wrote: View Post
It just goes to show you that VOY might be more popular than DS9 with casual audiences.
Or that What You Leave Behind is a painfully dull episode.
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Old August 1 2013, 01:28 PM   #33
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Re: Trek.com's "Finale" poll

BillJ wrote: View Post
Dream wrote: View Post
It just goes to show you that VOY might be more popular than DS9 with casual audiences.
Or that What You Leave Behind is a painfully dull episode.
Or both.

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Old August 1 2013, 02:00 PM   #34
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Re: Trek.com's "Finale" poll

Rush Limborg wrote: View Post
Lance wrote: View Post
What do you think about All Our Yesterdays as a potential replacement 'finale'? Sometimes I do think its hardcore exploration of the 'big three' as characters (seperating Kirk from the group and forcing McCoy and Spock into a survival situation) feels more fitting as a finale-of-sorts than Turnabout Intruder, which as you say feels a lot like it could have been any old episode in the middle of the season.
AllStarEntprise wrote: View Post
I consider All of Our Yesterday's to be a finale worthy of TOS the series.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but...doesn't "All Our Yesterdays" have a "later" stardate than "Turnabout Intruder?"

(Interesting note--when I first got the three seasons of TOS on DVD, I'd made it a point to watch them all in order of stardate. It actually held up pretty well, really. )

ENT ended with Demons and Terra Prime. TATV? I don't know what you mean.
This...except Terra Prime kinda has a downer of a final scene, right? Perhaps with a more "uplifting" epilogue...?

Anyway--rankings; well, let's see...as finales, not necessarily as episodes unto themselves....

"What You Leave Behind"--full stop. It was a true "closure" to the series.

This may seem odd, but--I'd actually put VGR and TOS ahead of "All Good Things" (but not by much--practically a three-way tie). Say what you will about it..."Endgame" was a conclusion to the main conflict of the show--getting home. I would have loved the mains having a final scene together, talking about what they'll do next, remembering Kes and, yes, Neelix...and perhaps Janeway toasting them (with coffee, of course), and the future. Still...can't have it all, can you?

"All Our Yesterdays", for the reason Lance noted--but with a caveat similar to my thoughts for "Endgame": I'd have loved, when Kirk, Spock, and McCoy are reunited, have an emphasized moment where our trio note how it's good to be back--all three of them. In many ways, our trio were the emotional "backbone" of the series--and it would've been great to have them acknowledge their deep friendship, once more.

"All Good Things" has a nice bookend with the big-time references to "Encounter At Farpoint" (and a look at a possible future)...but did it really provide much of an emotional "wrap-up" for the series? Um...not really. Except maybe between Q and Picard. I mean--I love poker! But...was that final game REALLY much of a wrap-up? Um....

What I remember of "Demons" and "Terra Prime" (it's been a while)--it's a great finale in the sense of its BIG "This is how the seeds of what would become the UFP were sown." Still, a good finale, as I noted above, must have emotional closure for the characters, too. I...don't recall much, there. Apparently, all the emotional stuff was reserved for TATV.
You can change around a few scenes in "Terra Prime" and have the episod end on Arhcers speech about exploring it together.
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Old August 1 2013, 06:18 PM   #35
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Re: Trek.com's "Finale" poll

Rating the real endings:

WYLB/STVI tie - STVI would have won, but then "Guess who's coming to dinner..." isn't as funny as I remembered it.
Terra Prime - About as good an ending as Enterprise would have gotten, considering the circumstances.
Nemesis - just dumb in every way possible.
Endgame - haven't actually seen it yet, but I know what happens, and it's bad. Maybe there's some stuff there that could bump it up above NEM though - wouldn't be hard.

AGT was a good episode. I think. I haven't seen it since it first aired, but my seven-year-old self was quite impressed.

TATV isn't something that I can completely ignore, because it had Shran in it being awesome as usual (even if the situation was dumb, and led to even dumber stuff).
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Old August 1 2013, 06:37 PM   #36
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Re: Trek.com's "Finale" poll

I think that All Good Things was by far the best finale. TOS shouldn't even count. Endgame was good and had the best battles of a finale. I REALLY wanted to love DS9s finale but the whole Pah Wraith subpot was TERRIBLE!!! I just rewatched the entire series and finished it last week. It wraps up most of the plot lines but was derailed with the whole Dukat/Winn subplot.

For what it's worth, I watched TNG during the original run and was hoping they would end with them playing poker. Appropriate ending.
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Old August 2 2013, 03:02 PM   #37
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Re: Trek.com's "Finale" poll

Dream wrote: View Post
JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
All Good Things winning is not surprising, but Endgame coming in second is a surprise. Endgame over What You Leave Behind, really?

Sure it's way better than Turnabout Intruder or These Are The Voyages, but it seemed more like they crammed the major themes of season 4-7 into an episode in an uninspired way than actually concluded the series.
It just goes to show you that VOY might be more popular than DS9 with casual audiences.
Why all the concern? Eliminating those who mention neither finale, 70% seem to approve of WYLB over Endame.
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Old August 4 2013, 01:46 AM   #38
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Re: Trek.com's "Finale" poll

JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
All Good Things winning is not surprising, but Endgame coming in second is a surprise. Endgame over What You Leave Behind, really?

Sure it's way better than Turnabout Intruder or These Are The Voyages, but it seemed more like they crammed the major themes of season 4-7 into an episode in an uninspired way than actually concluded the series.
I think it would have worked better to see the way they originally got home all those years later. Maybe the show runners were under the false impression that this cast was going to the big screen but it never happened and it felt cheap for future Janeway to go back in time and change the way it was suppose to happen.
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Old August 4 2013, 02:58 AM   #39
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Re: Trek.com's "Finale" poll

Endgame over WYLB? Even some of Voyager's cast were 'meh' about it.

They start off the episode by revealing Voyager already made it back to the AQ. And simply end it with them being surrounded by ships just after they reached the AQ.

One problem I had with Endgame is the time traveling. Overdone by the time Voyager started .

And then Voyager really overdid it. Cant count how many time travel episodes it aired. There's no longer anything fascinating about it on Trek.

Hell, Janeway simply borrows a time travel device and goes back.

WYLB had some pretty good action, but I'll admit the Pah Wraith, good versus evil plot was silly.

AGT kept it simple, a little too much technobabble, but a nice simple episode.
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Old August 4 2013, 07:49 PM   #40
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Re: Trek.com's "Finale" poll

TheRoyalFamily wrote: View Post
Rating the real endings:

WYLB/STVI tie - STVI would have won, but then "Guess who's coming to dinner..." isn't as funny as I remembered it.
Terra Prime - About as good an ending as Enterprise would have gotten, considering the circumstances.
Nemesis - just dumb in every way possible.
Endgame - haven't actually seen it yet, but I know what happens, and it's bad. Maybe there's some stuff there that could bump it up above NEM though - wouldn't be hard.
And now that I've actually watched it, I will bump "Endgame" above Nemesis. That was actually a good episode, as least as far as VOY goes. It did go downhill after Harry made his speech, and Chuckles/Seven was weird, at best (but at least Beltran decided to act in the last episode), but overall way above VOY's average. I thought the ending was good enough - I don't think I could stomach any actual celebrations from that show, and it worked well enough on its own anyways.
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