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Old August 4 2013, 11:28 PM   #91
Mr. Laser Beam
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Re: George Lucas - Why the Vitriol?

Set Harth wrote: View Post
Even then he was at least used as a plot device to move characters from point A to point B, and then his reference to the Gungan army becomes important in the final battle.
Oppa Gungan style?
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Old August 4 2013, 11:53 PM   #92
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Re: George Lucas - Why the Vitriol?

The OT is not all that. The second one has no ending and just suddenly stops, and the third one is just bad.
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Old August 4 2013, 11:53 PM   #93
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Re: George Lucas - Why the Vitriol?

J.T.B. wrote: View Post
MacLeod wrote: View Post
They're his films he can change them if he wants to it. You and I may not like it but such is life.
But that's not the whole issue. From what he's said, it seems like Lucas would prefer it if the original theatrical versions deteriorated into nothing, and the sooner the better. Regardless of whether someone has the right to make changes, the "Special Edition" of Star Wars is not the film that people lined up to see again and again in 1977. It's not the film that changed movie making. IMO that film does not deserve to be erased from history.

We've all heard of classic movies that were re-cut, not preserved or suppressed in some way. We've all heard of film historians and preservationists tracking down original prints to a basement somewhere so an original version can be restored. Why consign Star Wars, in advance, to that kind of fate? It could all be done now, and wouldn't take anything away from the SE version. I can't understand Lucas's position on that, I just don't get it.

BTW, IMO history will be kinder to the original cuts than the SEs, they are better movies.
But which is closer to his original vision the original versions of the Special Editions? Perhaps the technology did exist when he was creating them to create the scene how he envisioned it. Now perhpas it does. So the additions/alterations are closer to how he wanted it to be orginally.

Sure limitations can make a film better i.e. Jaws

But it would be uncommon for creative people to think back to earlier works be it film/TV/novels etc.. and think I wish I could go back and change that.
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Old August 5 2013, 12:42 AM   #94
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Re: George Lucas - Why the Vitriol?

MacLeod wrote: View Post
But which is closer to his original vision the original versions of the Special Editions? Perhaps the technology did exist when he was creating them to create the scene how he envisioned it. Now perhpas it does. So the additions/alterations are closer to how he wanted it to be orginally.
So what? The movie was completed and released and became part of history. If the director wants to revisit it and change things that's fine, but why not keep the original version available?
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Old August 5 2013, 02:42 AM   #95
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Re: George Lucas - Why the Vitriol?

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
Hate all you want on C3P0 but we didn't get long, extended, scenes of him just being a complete comic-relief doofus stepping in poop.
The whole droid factory/arena sequence in AOTC was CGI-3PO reprising Jar-Jar's role in the previous film.
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Old August 5 2013, 03:12 AM   #96
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Re: George Lucas - Why the Vitriol?

The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
Hate all you want on C3P0 but we didn't get long, extended, scenes of him just being a complete comic-relief doofus stepping in poop.
The whole droid factory/arena sequence in AOTC was CGI-3PO reprising Jar-Jar's role in the previous film.
But we've already established the PT were slapsticky bullshit.
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Old August 5 2013, 03:51 AM   #97
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Re: George Lucas - Why the Vitriol?

^ YOU say.
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Old August 5 2013, 04:29 AM   #98
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Re: George Lucas - Why the Vitriol?

J.T.B. wrote: View Post
MacLeod wrote: View Post
But which is closer to his original vision the original versions of the Special Editions? Perhaps the technology did exist when he was creating them to create the scene how he envisioned it. Now perhpas it does. So the additions/alterations are closer to how he wanted it to be orginally.
So what? The movie was completed and released and became part of history. If the director wants to revisit it and change things that's fine, but why not keep the original version available?
Because that's not the film the director wants.

Besides the original versions of the episodes IV-VI were made available on DVD.
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Old August 5 2013, 05:06 AM   #99
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Re: George Lucas - Why the Vitriol?

MacLeod wrote: View Post
J.T.B. wrote: View Post
So what? The movie was completed and released and became part of history. If the director wants to revisit it and change things that's fine, but why not keep the original version available?
Because that's not the film the director wants.
That's hardly a reasoned defense of the position.

Besides the original versions of the episodes IV-VI were made available on DVD.
The problems with those were already discussed. And that does not address the issue of the historical preservation of the originals.
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Old August 5 2013, 05:05 PM   #100
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Re: George Lucas - Why the Vitriol?

^I disagree it's a perfectly reasonable defence.

Director of a movie prefers version B of his movie to version A. Sure some films have the original theatricl version and a directors edition. I think the difference is for the majority of the films the studio not the director holds the rights to the film. In the case of SW as Lucas owned Lucasfilm he owned the rights to his movies. So he could choose which version he would rather have out there.

You and I might agree or disagree with his position but as long as he holds the rights he can do what he likes with them.
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Old August 5 2013, 05:30 PM   #101
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Re: George Lucas - Why the Vitriol?

MacLeod wrote: View Post
^I disagree it's a perfectly reasonable defence.

Director of a movie prefers version B of his movie to version A. Sure some films have the original theatricl version and a directors edition. I think the difference is for the majority of the films the studio not the director holds the rights to the film. In the case of SW as Lucas owned Lucasfilm he owned the rights to his movies. So he could choose which version he would rather have out there.
Obviously.

A reasonable defense would be here are the reasons why, here are the advantages, here are the practical considerations. A simple declaration of personal preference is not generally regarded as a sound argument.

You and I might agree or disagree with his position but as long as he holds the rights he can do what he likes with them.
If you read back in the thread I don't think I or anyone else claimed otherwise. What I am discussing is whether that position is beneficial to the history of the films.
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Old August 5 2013, 05:56 PM   #102
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Re: George Lucas - Why the Vitriol?

Why do I feel like I just sat down in the Argument Clinic all of a sudden?
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Old August 5 2013, 06:38 PM   #103
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Re: George Lucas - Why the Vitriol?

Lt. Cheka Wey wrote: View Post
I love it how everybody talks about Lucas being a savvy businessman but he almost killed the franchise.
When did this happen?

Episode 1 Budget = $115M Box office Domestic $431M/Box Office World Wide Over $1Billion
Episode 2 Budget = $115M Domestic $302M/Worldwide $649M
Episode 3 Budget = $113M Domestic $380M/Worldwide $848M

3 movies that cost a combined total of less than $350M, made $1.5B. Damn, I wish someone would kill my finances in the same manner. The Domestic Box Office alone was enough to make a profit and keep the Franchise alive
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Old August 5 2013, 06:47 PM   #104
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Re: George Lucas - Why the Vitriol?

Sindatur wrote: View Post
Lt. Cheka Wey wrote: View Post
I love it how everybody talks about Lucas being a savvy businessman but he almost killed the franchise.
When did this happen?

Episode 1 Budget = $115M Box office Domestic $431M/Box Office World Wide Over $1Billion
Episode 2 Budget = $115M Domestic $302M/Worldwide $649M
Episode 3 Budget = $113M Domestic $380M/Worldwide $848M

3 movies that cost a combined total of less than $350M, made $1.5B. Damn, I wish someone would kill my finances in the same manner. The Domestic Box Office alone was enough to make a profit and keep the Franchise alive
Then you factor in sales to cable, home video and merchandising and I'd say Lucas made a killing on the prequel trilogy.

While fans, like myself, were screaming about Jar-Jar, it was a savvy move by Lucas. A character that was going to draw in younger audiences.
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Old August 5 2013, 06:56 PM   #105
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Re: George Lucas - Why the Vitriol?

So then what you're saying is that George Lucas is the poster boy for being a profound sell-out, by generating such a character at the cost of good storytelling, just for the younger demographic to fill theater seats? While it may be profitable, this only serves to potentially alienate a strong fan-base.

But then again, who am I kidding? Trek in general, and Abrams in particular have been accused of doing this over and over for years and people still keep coming back for more.

Common sense isn't.

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