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Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old August 14 2013, 06:05 AM   #1
jazzstick
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Forced Relationships

Ok...

Now don't get me wrong, I love both of these characters but didn't the love between Odo and Kira seemed a bit forced, like it wasn't something that both people wouldn't have done but the writes just forced it anyway, and another thing that I just have to ask that I've been wondering ever since I've been watching the show, if Odo is a shape shifter, wouldn't you think that he could change into all kinds of pleasing shapes and attachments the could be mind blowing to a humanoid woman. They never say any of this but there was that part with the woman who said he had bedroom eyes and its seems implied. I know its really weird but every time I watch that episode I can't help but wonder what kind of moves Odo was capable of.

I also find O'Brain and Keiko's marriage hard to take. O'Brain always struck me as the kind of guy who just wanted to come home after work, take a dump, have a sandwich and a beer put his feet up on the table and relax. Keiko seemed very independent and routine and was always trying to get O'brain to do shit he didn't want. Neither of these people seemed like they didn't need each other around other than for the kids!

Maybe it's just me...
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Old August 14 2013, 06:17 AM   #2
M.A.C.O.
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Re: Forced Relationships

You left out the Bashier/Ezri relationship of season 7. I felt THAT one was forced. Right up there with Worf and Troi in TNG season 7 and Seven and Chakotay of VOY season 7. This is called "pair the spares".
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Old August 14 2013, 07:16 AM   #3
UnknownSample
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Re: Forced Relationships

I can't think of any Trek pairing that didn't seem forced. I can (just barely) buy it on Odo's side, but not on Kira's, but it doesn't matter. It was surprising, unexpected, and well done.

Maybe once they've set up regular characters in a respectful-colleagues relationship, it's hard to show that suddenly turning into romance years later. O'Brien/Keiko seemed fine though. He seems like a family man.

jazzstick-- Odo fell in love with Kira specifically. He wasn't some guy out to meet chicks in a singles bar or something. So that's why he didn't change into a GQ model and go trolling. He didn't even consider the whole thing relevant to him, since he was a liquid, who just looked humanoid. The far-fetched thing for me was that any romance with anything like a sexual component was an option, since he wasn't a humanoid male, and maybe had no actual gender and no sexual nature at all.
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Old August 14 2013, 07:30 AM   #4
teacake
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Re: Forced Relationships

jazzstick wrote: View Post
and another thing that I just have to ask that I've been wondering ever since I've been watching the show, if Odo is a shape shifter, wouldn't you think that he could change into all kinds of pleasing shapes and attachments the could be mind blowing to a humanoid woman. They never say any of this but there was that part with the woman who said he had bedroom eyes and its seems implied. I know its really weird but every time I watch that episode I can't help but wonder what kind of moves Odo was capable of.
I too think about his dick.


I also find O'Brain and Keiko's marriage hard to take. O'Brain always struck me as the kind of guy who just wanted to come home after work, take a dump, have a sandwich and a beer put his feet up on the table and relax. Keiko seemed very independent and routine and was always trying to get O'brain to do shit he didn't want. Neither of these people seemed like they didn't need each other around other than for the kids!
Sounds normal. Doesn't make for a very Star Trek story but it does make for a familiar one.
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Old August 14 2013, 07:41 AM   #5
jimbotron
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Re: Forced Relationships

I adore DS9, it's my favorite Trek show, but the Odo/Kira romance was a black eye to the series IMO. It turned a very stoic and tough character into a mewling teenager at times.

I wasn't a fan of Worf/Jadzia either. It always seemed like Bashir/Jadzia would have been the natural choice. At one point, Ezri said to Bashir "if Worf hadn't come around, it would have been you." I'm pretty sure that was the writers talking there.

It's refreshing that no one in TNG hooked up during the course of the show (not until the movies).
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Old August 14 2013, 07:48 AM   #6
teacake
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Re: Forced Relationships

A 7 year dry spell is not refreshing.

I enjoyed Bashir and Ezri, that was sweet. Odo and Kira I always found ick.

DS9 had lots of marriages.

Rom and Leeta
Zek and Ishka
Sisko and Kasidy
Martok and Sirella
Keiko and Miles
Jadzia and Worf

And lots of other romances, romantic or otherwise (Kira's cardboard bajorans).
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Old August 14 2013, 08:10 AM   #7
doctorfoto
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Re: Forced Relationships

I don't know. I think generally speaking the relationships were done pretty well on DS9. I know a lot of people didn't care for Keiko, but I really felt for her. On TNG, she's a botanist, cataloging plant life throughout the frontier, but on DS9, she's either stuck on a station with no plants, or she's off to Bajor to help rebuild the agricultural system, or working in the Gamma Quadrant. I'm actually amazed that their marriage went as well as it did, considering.

Kira and Odo was fine to me. I actually enjoyed that it was A) a REALLY long buildup and B) For the longest time, one sided. And personally, I don't think you can make a better relationship episode than His Way.

Jadzia and Worf, much as I was not really a fan - I have to admit made some sense. They were both about at the same point in their careers. Dax was familiar with the Klingon culture, language and mindset way before Worf had arrived, and probably one of the few non-Klingon women who could handle Worf and everything that came along with that relationship.

Another relationship not mentioned that I liked was Sisko and Kasidy. That one was done very well I thought. Garak and Ziyal was sweet, but awkward. And I've seen some schmoopy pairings like Rom and Leeta. I don't like watching couples like that, but I know they happen.

Bashir and Ezri was forced. No way around it. She decides she's in love with him while being tortured by the Breen and he figures it out while he's rooting around Sloan's mind, about to die. A few awkward exchanges and the next thing you know they're making out in the turbolift. Well done writers!

Last edited by doctorfoto; August 14 2013 at 08:22 AM.
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Old August 14 2013, 08:21 AM   #8
bbjeg
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Re: Forced Relationships

Didn't Odo do Kira in a gaseous form at the end of an episode?

Plus, DS9 was a bunch of people in deep space during war time. Everyone was probably rocking the bed, or the holosuite.
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Old August 14 2013, 08:21 AM   #9
R. Star
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Re: Forced Relationships

I always figured O'brien and Keiko were in it for the makeup sex.
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Old August 14 2013, 09:30 AM   #10
teacake
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Re: Forced Relationships

Oh R.Star I read that in Garak's voice..
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Old August 14 2013, 01:36 PM   #11
dub
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Re: Forced Relationships

All of the well done romance and relationships, and characters in general were why out of all of the Star Treks, DS9 was the one I knew my wife would enjoy and appreciate. And she did. Although since she is not a sci-fi fan, she commented several times about how she found the interspecies dating strange. LOL! I think she got used to it by the end.

Also, I remember seeing an interview with Nana Visitor in which she was asked "out of all the men Kira dated, which one was her favorite?" And after thinking for a moment she said, "Odo. He's more...versatile!"
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Old August 14 2013, 01:41 PM   #12
R. Star
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Re: Forced Relationships

Odo's ribbed for her pleasure?
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Old August 14 2013, 02:38 PM   #13
Jono
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Re: Forced Relationships

^ I think it was the books that state that Bajoran males have ridges on another of their appendages.

I agree with the Erzi/Bashir relationship being forced. One of the few things I liked about the DS9 novels is they ended that relationship.
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Old August 14 2013, 02:58 PM   #14
Chensams
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Re: Forced Relationships

I felt it seemed forced on Kira's side. Just didn't work for me. But the Ezri/Bashir relationship was a waste of time. Extremely forced/rushed and wasted episode time during the last season. In my opinion, they shouldn't have even brought Dax back as a main character. Just have her/him show up for an episode or two to let us know Dax is still around but no need to bring her on as a main character.
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Old August 14 2013, 03:35 PM   #15
The Emissary
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Re: Forced Relationships

I think Keiko and Miles were fine. The writers, unfortunately, upped the ridiculousness of how the two often clash. Married couples clash all the time, but it seemed like the writers just played up O'Brien being whipped husband and Keiko being the shrew of a wife tropes too much for laughs. For the most part, the two seemed to get on pretty well.

Ziyal and Garak...does this count as a relationship? Did Garak ever really love her? He seemed to have a curious interest in her due to her devotion to him plus she was the only other Cardassian he could be with. His being with her felt more like a rebound to his original girlfriend he was forced to part with: Cardassia.

Rom and Leeta. Do not get this one at all. I guess it fits. Leeta was just supposed to be quirky and non-discriminatory on her romances. So...

Kira and Odo work fine for me. I notice there is a popular consensus both here and on other sites that Kira liking Odo was what felt off. How so? The two were already close (albeit only as friends but still).

I'd rather have Jadzia with Bashir, but her and Worf fit fine. She's a Klingonphile. Not that much of a stretch that she'd love Worf. Worf loving her...works. She has a fiery spirit and it makes more sense than him with Troi.

Ezri and Bashir were the absolute worst. It really felt like they were saying "you can't have Jadzia, but here is your consolation prize!!!" WTF? Julian is too smart to fall for that anyways. He should have recognized that he didn't love Ezri, he loved Jadzia and he saw her in Ezri. In a weird, twisted way, it was the only way he could get Jadzia. Besides, Bashir should have ended up with Sarrena. She's a fellow augment and would understand Julian more.
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