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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old July 29 2013, 10:41 PM   #16
Flying Spaghetti Monster
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Re: Generations references

The best part of Generations, at least in owning it, is hearing the writers' commentary. They praise Carson and Alonzo and aren't afraid to criticize elements of the script.

But the praise for how the inside of the ship looked different and more theatrical for Generations isn't just Alonzo's cinematography. They made a point to say that, on television, they only had a week to shoot an episode, and the ship was lit generally the same way week to week (unless the script calls for a power outage). They couldn't even attempt to create the warmth that Alonzo created but having sunbeams coming into the windows. They also couldn't use as many extras, despite the fact that Ten-Forward should have looked like that the whole series.

As for the script, the studio gave them a long checklist of elements the script had to have. That checklist included:

- Kirk and two other TOS guys appeared in only the beginning. Kirk would appear later in the film for an adventure with Picard, but it was primarily a TNG movie.
- They wanted an arch-villain similar to Khan.
- Klingons must be used.
- there must be a Data-comedy-runner subplot.
- The Enterprise must be destroyed.

That sounds like the whole script, doesn't it. With all those set requirements, a script from a film student wouldn't look much different than a script from an Oscar-winning screenwriter, and the writers of the film fall in the middle of that range. Plus they really tried to make the film meaningful in terms of its themes of mortality. I commend them. My biggest complaint, script-wise has always been the ludicrous hostage negotiation scene. I'd probably rank the film a grade higher if that scene had made sense
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Old July 30 2013, 03:20 AM   #17
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Re: Generations references

The one thing I thought they could have gone further with on the sunlight shining inside was to bring the light at more of a raking angle rather than shining it straight in. If the sun was low, you'd've had a hot spot on the ceiling that would have provided bounce down on the actors, kind of the JFK lighting of Richardson's, or if you'd had the light coming in from above, that would have created an interesting effect on the deck, especially if you were shooting toward the windows and letting the people go silhouetted.
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Old July 30 2013, 05:05 AM   #18
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Re: Generations references

Praetor wrote: View Post
It bums me out all the more that the D had to bite the bullet in the film. Those sets and the 6-footer looked amazing.
The more I've thought about it over the years, the more I wish they hadn't destroyed the D. The Enterprise E never had the particularly unique style of the D, something which was such a large contributing factor to the 'feel' of the TNG tv series. I was enthralled with it when it made its debut in First Contact in 1996, but as the years have gone on I've come to think of it as a dark, dreary, lifeless vessell. Online commentators like RedLetterMedia have talked about the 'depressing' tone of the TNG movies, and I think the change to the more totalitarian look of the Enterprise E, alongside those new grey uniforms, did much to contribute to that. There was always something uplifting about the D, even in Generations where its lit darker, but the overall effect is more like a blend of rich colors, not "battleship grey" like the Ent E was.

I understand they wanted a 'hook' for the next movie, a brand new ship (and the cynic in me adds, "new merchandising opportunities" ) to add interest to the marketing of the movie, as well as giving us an allegedly more 'theatrical' hero ship. And it worked, at least in 1996. But it was a very short term solution, and I think in the long term it would have been much better to have retained some sense of continuity with the series that had been so popular. Generations shown that the Enterprise D could work on the big screen, and that it looked fantastic. Why fix it if it isn't broke?
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Old July 31 2013, 02:55 AM   #19
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Re: Generations references

^^^Biggest missed opportunity in the films was NOT to have the D in FC. If you thought the Borg were scary, just imagine them assimilating the civilians, including children and pets. The D was a miniature Earth with all the aspects of a human (and some alien) community onboard. The E were a solely military crew of volunteers. Assimilating soldiers into drones isn't as powerful a demonstration of what the Borg are going to do as the assimilation of families would have been.
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Old July 31 2013, 03:26 AM   #20
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Re: Generations references

arch101 wrote: View Post
^^^Biggest missed opportunity in the films was NOT to have the D in FC. If you thought the Borg were scary, just imagine them assimilating the civilians, including children and pets. The D was a miniature Earth with all the aspects of a human (and some alien) community onboard. The E were a solely military crew of volunteers. Assimilating soldiers into drones isn't as powerful a demonstration of what the Borg are going to do as the assimilation of families would have been.
Oh absolutely. Not to mention the ship itself. I can imagine seeing the familiar-and-comfortable Enterprise D sets being slowly converted into Borg alcoves would have had far more emotional resonance with the audience than the same thing happening to a ship we've only known for five minutes. The audience wouldn't have the same emotional connection with the 1701-E as they would have done with her predecessor in that situation.
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Old July 31 2013, 07:30 PM   #21
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Re: Generations references

arch101 wrote: View Post
^^^Biggest missed opportunity in the films was NOT to have the D in FC. If you thought the Borg were scary, just imagine them assimilating the civilians, including children and pets. The D was a miniature Earth with all the aspects of a human (and some alien) community onboard. The E were a solely military crew of volunteers. Assimilating soldiers into drones isn't as powerful a demonstration of what the Borg are going to do as the assimilation of families would have been.
Lance wrote: View Post
Oh absolutely. Not to mention the ship itself. I can imagine seeing the familiar-and-comfortable Enterprise D sets being slowly converted into Borg alcoves would have had far more emotional resonance with the audience than the same thing happening to a ship we've only known for five minutes. The audience wouldn't have the same emotional connection with the 1701-E as they would have done with her predecessor in that situation.
I agree that it would have been just as horrifying to the audience to see the ship we watched on TV all those years being slowly lost to the Borg. But being as they actually had a budget and time to do the film, I'd hope they would have done it right. The proper thing to do would have been having the Enterprise separate the saucer section the way it was supposed to and we would have spent the rest of the film seeing the battle section be assimilated.
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Old July 31 2013, 08:51 PM   #22
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Re: Generations references

And perhaps attacking the saucer section?
I would have loved to see the ENT-D in FC, INS and Nem
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Old August 1 2013, 09:47 PM   #23
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Re: Generations references

Praetor wrote: View Post
It bums me out all the more that the D had to bite the bullet in the film. Those sets and the 6-footer looked amazing.

I still say blow up the ship for wow factor, but undo it with the Nexus. Best of both worlds.

(Say, that's a catchy title...)
Totally agree. I loved the Ent-D & was a gutted when it was destroyed. Would have loved to have seen it in a few more movie as it looked amazing in Generations. I do like the sleek look of the E but the D is by far my favorite!
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Old August 4 2013, 12:10 AM   #24
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Re: Generations references

Of course, the Borg would probably have disabled the ability of the ship to separate.
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Old August 4 2013, 02:26 AM   #25
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Re: Generations references

Peach Wookiee wrote: View Post
Of course, the Borg would probably have disabled the ability of the ship to separate.
I'm not so sure. The Enterprise should have separated near to any Federation stations and then sped to the battle.
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Old August 5 2013, 01:08 AM   #26
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Re: Generations references

Kevman7987 wrote: View Post
arch101 wrote: View Post
^^^Biggest missed opportunity in the films was NOT to have the D in FC. If you thought the Borg were scary, just imagine them assimilating the civilians, including children and pets. The D was a miniature Earth with all the aspects of a human (and some alien) community onboard. The E were a solely military crew of volunteers. Assimilating soldiers into drones isn't as powerful a demonstration of what the Borg are going to do as the assimilation of families would have been.
Lance wrote: View Post
Oh absolutely. Not to mention the ship itself. I can imagine seeing the familiar-and-comfortable Enterprise D sets being slowly converted into Borg alcoves would have had far more emotional resonance with the audience than the same thing happening to a ship we've only known for five minutes. The audience wouldn't have the same emotional connection with the 1701-E as they would have done with her predecessor in that situation.
I agree that it would have been just as horrifying to the audience to see the ship we watched on TV all those years being slowly lost to the Borg. But being as they actually had a budget and time to do the film, I'd hope they would have done it right. The proper thing to do would have been having the Enterprise separate the saucer section the way it was supposed to and we would have spent the rest of the film seeing the battle section be assimilated.
"Jean-Luc, blow up the damn ship!"

"Yeah...alright then"

Worf: "Well, this turn of events ruins the majority of my screen time in this film...oh well, back to DS9 for me!"
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Old August 5 2013, 01:56 PM   #27
JarodRussell
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Re: Generations references

Dick_Valentine wrote: View Post
Kevman7987 wrote: View Post
arch101 wrote: View Post
^^^Biggest missed opportunity in the films was NOT to have the D in FC. If you thought the Borg were scary, just imagine them assimilating the civilians, including children and pets. The D was a miniature Earth with all the aspects of a human (and some alien) community onboard. The E were a solely military crew of volunteers. Assimilating soldiers into drones isn't as powerful a demonstration of what the Borg are going to do as the assimilation of families would have been.
Lance wrote: View Post
Oh absolutely. Not to mention the ship itself. I can imagine seeing the familiar-and-comfortable Enterprise D sets being slowly converted into Borg alcoves would have had far more emotional resonance with the audience than the same thing happening to a ship we've only known for five minutes. The audience wouldn't have the same emotional connection with the 1701-E as they would have done with her predecessor in that situation.
I agree that it would have been just as horrifying to the audience to see the ship we watched on TV all those years being slowly lost to the Borg. But being as they actually had a budget and time to do the film, I'd hope they would have done it right. The proper thing to do would have been having the Enterprise separate the saucer section the way it was supposed to and we would have spent the rest of the film seeing the battle section be assimilated.
"Jean-Luc, blow up the damn ship!"

"Yeah...alright then"

Worf: "Well, this turn of events ruins the majority of my screen time in this film...oh well, back to DS9 for me!"
Without the D getting destroyed in Generations, Worf wouldn't have ended up on DS9 to begin with.
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Old August 9 2013, 04:03 PM   #28
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Re: Generations references

Peach Wookiee wrote: View Post
Of course, the Borg would probably have disabled the ability of the ship to separate.
LaForge: "We can't separate."

Picard: "What?"

LaForge: "The Berman latches have been hard-locked by the Borg We have no way to break their encryption."



There are several things that happen during or because of Generations that I wonder how they would be affected by the D not being destroyed... Data's emotion chip would surely have still happened, but LaForge's eyes? Worf's transfer?

Worf: "I have just received new orders from Admiral Berman to report to Deep Space Nine for reassignment."

I still think blowing up the D, then using Kirk to hit a reset button where the D is not destroyed, would have satisfied having a fancy explosion and crash sequence, while keeping the D and the accompanying TNG feel. Twould have been a good fakeout too. I was not particularly surprised that they destroyed it.
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Old August 10 2013, 05:11 AM   #29
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Re: Generations references

Carson repeats another of his own shots from the opening of DS9's "Emissary", during the battle with the Borg, a crewman walks across the bridge past the captain's chair while delivering some technobabbly line. At the beginning of Generations, the crewman played by Tim Russ does the exact same thing. It always stood out to me for some reason.
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Old August 12 2013, 03:54 PM   #30
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Re: Generations references

Interesting. I hadn't noticed that.
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