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Future of Trek Discussion of future Trek projects.

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Old August 8 2013, 05:02 PM   #31
Konata Izumi
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Re: Plot for a new Star Trek Series

BillJ wrote: View Post
Simply, I'm burnt out on the watered-down Trek that we got in the mid-90's. For all his flaws, something happened when Roddenberry passed away. It seemed like all the fun was sucked out of the franchise. Abrams brought back the fun and I hope that if a TV series is launched that they look to the Abrams films and TOS and remember fun is part of the equation.
That's a pretty fun analysis on TNG's success.
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Old August 8 2013, 05:25 PM   #32
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Re: Plot for a new Star Trek Series

Konata Izumi wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Simply, I'm burnt out on the watered-down Trek that we got in the mid-90's. For all his flaws, something happened when Roddenberry passed away. It seemed like all the fun was sucked out of the franchise. Abrams brought back the fun and I hope that if a TV series is launched that they look to the Abrams films and TOS and remember fun is part of the equation.
That's a pretty fun analysis on TNG's success.
It wasn't a statement solely about TNG. The statement was about 1987-2005, the entirety of "Modern Trek".

As far as TNG is concerned, I really started to get bored with it around season five.
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Old August 8 2013, 05:46 PM   #33
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Re: Plot for a new Star Trek Series

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
anh165 wrote: View Post
Too much sentlement towards ideas and productions of old cancelled TV shows in the 1990's - there is only so much you can spin off from the original Trek concept, that's why the reboot is the only way to make Trek work in today's mainstream.
Not just the mainstream. I was a Trek fan from before TNG, and I'm burned out on spin-offs. I just want real Star Trek now -- Kirk, Spock, the Enterprise, and a good story. No Captain Benson Harding of the Federation Starship Pantheon, no Cadet Sel'ltza of Starfleet Academy's elite Red Squad, no Captain Elizabeth Walker of the 29th Century Federation Timeship Moon-phase.

I'm not a big fan of Abrams' Trek, but it's given me hope that the next reboot could be even better. And, if not, the next one after that could be good. But no more TV spinoffs. Team Berman beat that horse to death.
Well even TOS and TMP era watching it today is very dated, but it is indeed very watchable and entertaining because the core of Trek runs through TOS and TMP with the Kirk and his crew and the serenity and heroics of the Enterprise.

JJAbrams trek is simply a modern take of those concepts that worked and made Trek likable.

The rest of the stuff (odo vs quark, harry kim, seven of nine, the opening theme tune to Enterprise, cut n paste ship battles, gagh and blood honour klingons) can all safely be forgotten.
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Old August 8 2013, 06:31 PM   #34
Konata Izumi
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Re: Plot for a new Star Trek Series

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As far as TNG is concerned, I really started to get bored with it around season five.
You watched it too much. The reruns I've occasionally watched, most of them between seasons 5-7, were all very good. Either the drama was very nice, or more rarely, there was some ridiculous 'Star Trek'-moment. I'll see the spin-offs some day, perhaps when the reruns end again. At least once it has worked very well with lead characters other than the TOS crew, it might work again.

Last edited by Konata Izumi; August 8 2013 at 06:43 PM.
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Old August 9 2013, 08:34 PM   #35
Hober Mallow
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Re: Plot for a new Star Trek Series

Belz... wrote: View Post
Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
I just want real Star Trek now -- Kirk, Spock, the Enterprise, and a good story. No Captain Benson Harding of the Federation Starship Pantheon, no Cadet Sel'ltza of Starfleet Academy's elite Red Squad, no Captain Elizabeth Walker of the 29th Century Federation Timeship Moon-phase.
So you don't want new stuff, then ? That's very unfortunate.
Of course I want knew stuff. New stuff with Kirk, Spock, and the Enterprise. Same as I want new stuff with Sherlock Holmes, not Sherlock Holmes' great-grandson Maynard Nelson Holmes or any other goofy spinoff.
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Old August 10 2013, 01:11 AM   #36
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Re: Plot for a new Star Trek Series

Well that isn't going to happen so its just wishful thinking. The actors of the new star trek films are big movie stars and would not sign for a tv series which would mean they would have to do yet another reboot which would piss people off. They would probably set a new series straight after the events of Voy but I think this would be a bad idea as they have dragged them stories out too. The only way to do it is to create a completely new original story set in distant future where you can introduce new aliens but obviously keeping the core of star trek and using elements of the original series
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Old August 10 2013, 01:43 AM   #37
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Re: Plot for a new Star Trek Series

dan_bevan wrote: View Post
Well that isn't going to happen so its just wishful thinking. The actors of the new star trek films are big movie stars and would not sign for a tv series which would mean they would have to do yet another reboot which would piss people off.
Who exactly would they piss-off? Many movies have moved to the small screen with new casts. So they may or may not reboot again.

They would probably set a new series straight after the events of Voy but I think this would be a bad idea as they have dragged them stories out too.
Of course it's a bad idea, that's why we got the Abramsverse to begin with.


The only way to do it is to create a completely new original story set in distant future where you can introduce new aliens but obviously keeping the core of star trek and using elements of the original series
So the only way to do it is too introduce new characters that continue to water down the brand? The only way to introduce new aliens is to move to the far future? Enterprise had no issue introducing new aliens and it took place a hundred plus years prior to TOS.

General audiences really don't seem to have great memories of Modern Trek. So it seems to me that the worst thing you can do is make Star Trek: The Generic Generation. The only people who would be watching were the same people who were watching Enterprise at the end and it would quickly get flushed.

I think people need to face the fact that the only real currency Trek has to barter with when it comes to general audiences is Kirk, Spock and the Enterprise. The worst thing you can do is push it further into the future where the technology becomes magic and the characters would be unrecognizable as human beings.

YMMV.
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Old August 10 2013, 10:51 AM   #38
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Re: Plot for a new Star Trek Series

BillJ wrote: View Post
I'm with Hober Mallow on this one. Simply, I'm burnt out on the watered-down Trek that we got in the mid-90's. For all his flaws, something happened when Roddenberry passed away.
I don't get all the reverence for Roddenberry. His ideas weren't so great, and he wasn't the only one involved in the show. And how about TMP ? Few people thought it represented TOS well (although I do love that movie.)

TNG and DS9 were excellent shows, imo.

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
Of course I want knew stuff. New stuff with Kirk, Spock, and the Enterprise.
Yeah, that's what I said: you want "new" stuff but not really new. I has not be "new" but have the very same characters. I don't get that. As long as the show is good, it can be with any crew or ship or setting. And TOS was super fun but immensely repetitive, recycling the same stuff over and over.
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Old August 10 2013, 11:03 AM   #39
Konata Izumi
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Re: Plot for a new Star Trek Series

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So the only way to do it is too introduce new characters that continue to water down the brand?
If they can manage to introduce the next Picard, aka the next Kirk, they can water down the brand with that. Throw in a few wacky Geordis and Rikers and stuff will work like it always has with those.

Show used to be about stuff in the future but it doesn't feel that way unless they create new tech alongside the cliches. It's just what the show is about. It's not cliches in the future, but a sensible balance of new and old stuff. They are not trying right now when it comes to imagining future and they could try a little. They're just changing the aesthetic of stuff popularized in the 60's.

Not that the last few spin-offs were any better in that regard what I've heard of them.

Last edited by Konata Izumi; August 10 2013 at 11:21 AM.
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Old August 10 2013, 02:52 PM   #40
BillJ
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Re: Plot for a new Star Trek Series

Belz... wrote: View Post

I don't get all the reverence for Roddenberry. His ideas weren't so great, and he wasn't the only one involved in the show. And how about TMP ? Few people thought it represented TOS well (although I do love that movie.)

TNG and DS9 were excellent shows, imo.
There was a sense of seriousness that set in when Roddenberry left the day-to-day running of TNG. For me, Star Trek is about exploring a weird and wild frontier where anything could happen with larger-than-life heroes.

It definitely lost that after Roddenberry's passing.

Not to mention none of these other Trek series would even exist if he didn't create the format to begin with.


Yeah, that's what I said: you want "new" stuff but not really new. I has not be "new" but have the very same characters. I don't get that. As long as the show is good, it can be with any crew or ship or setting. And TOS was super fun but immensely repetitive, recycling the same stuff over and over.
What stories can you tell with Captain Huge Douchebag and the U.S.S. Fanboy (NCC-2,000,000 with 15 type-MLCVII pulse phaser cannons) that you can't tell with Captain Kirk and the U.S.S. Enterprise?

Douchebag and company aren't really new, they're just variations on a theme.

The funniest thing about this argument is that TOS had the shortest run of the five live-action series and yet no one seemed to have a problem with TNG, DS9 or VOY doing 170+ episodes. Seems to me there is still room for new adventures of Kirk and Company.
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Old August 10 2013, 05:25 PM   #41
Konata Izumi
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Re: Plot for a new Star Trek Series

BillJ wrote: View Post
There was a sense of seriousness that set in when Roddenberry left the day-to-day running of TNG. For me, Star Trek is about exploring a weird and wild frontier where anything could happen with larger-than-life heroes.

It definitely lost that after Roddenberry's passing.
It's called drama, in this case precisely about amazing heroes in weird and wild happenings. It's not like the show's not full of humor either.

When did you actually see the show?
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Old August 10 2013, 05:45 PM   #42
BillJ
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Re: Plot for a new Star Trek Series

Konata Izumi wrote: View Post

When did you actually see the show?
Watched it first run, watched it in syndication, watched it on DVD, watched it on Netflix, now watching it on Blu-ray. I've easily seen every episode three or four times. I've seen the season one and two episodes of TNG a dozen times each. I own most of Modern Trek on DVD and have seen it all.

It was drama before Roddenberry left as well, it just didn't seem to treat itself quite so seriously. Like I've said before, there was a sense of fun that seemed to evaporate when Roddenberry died. An episode can be serious yet still be entertaining and make you smile at certain points. Roddenberry seemed to have a knack for making even the most dull or outrageous ideas entertaining. Post-Roddenberry, it was also less adventurous and the music stunk.
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Old August 10 2013, 06:10 PM   #43
Konata Izumi
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Re: Plot for a new Star Trek Series

They should make a new generation happen again. There exists enough TOS and TNG. New tech (for innovative storytelling & coolness), new type of captain, new style. Keep the human condition topics, the ethos, the humour and the wackiness.
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Old August 11 2013, 04:52 PM   #44
Hober Mallow
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Re: Plot for a new Star Trek Series

dan_bevan wrote: View Post
Well that isn't going to happen so its just wishful thinking. The actors of the new star trek films are big movie stars and would not sign for a tv series--
Who said anything about the movie stars? Do you think the BBC hesitated to make a new Sherlock Holmes series because Basil Rathbone wasn't available?

--which would mean they would have to do yet another reboot which would piss people off.
I keep going back to Sherlock Holmes because I think it's a good comparison. People weren't pissed off about Benedict Cumberbatch doing a rebooted Holmes series. The series is doing quite well, actually.
Belz... wrote: View Post
Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
Of course I want knew stuff. New stuff with Kirk, Spock, and the Enterprise.
Yeah, that's what I said: you want "new" stuff but not really new.
When I want "really new" stuff, as you put it, I don't turn to Star Trek, a nearly fifty-year-old franchise. If what you want is really new, then what would be the point of doing Star Trek at all?
BillJ wrote: View Post
What stories can you tell with Captain Huge Douchebag and the U.S.S. Fanboy (NCC-2,000,000 with 15 type-MLCVII pulse phaser cannons) that you can't tell with Captain Kirk and the U.S.S. Enterprise?

Douchebag and company aren't really new, they're just variations on a theme.
Actually I think I'd watch that show. Can we change his name to Hugo Douchebag? And are you suggesting we actually call the series DOUCHEBAG AND CO.? If so... okay.

Let's put a fan series together.
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Old August 12 2013, 01:50 AM   #45
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Re: Plot for a new Star Trek Series

I think Sherlock is a very flawed comparison here. Sherlock is a literary character, many have played him in the past, but he always existed primarily on the page and there is no iconic Sherlock Holmes actor.

Here, Shatner is Kirk, Nemoy is Spock, so on and so on. The new movies are good. They are fun. I enjoy them and I think they're worthwhile. But in the end, they are imitations of an original, which is why many people have had a hard time accepting them, and even to me, who's a fan, they'll never be the "real" Kirk and Spock and so on.

i think you push that a step too far if you try to reboot a secont time right now. Trek is a rich universe. It's way too dismissive to say that any original series set in it will only have stereotypical characters who aren't interesting just because they're not the original characters. Sure, that could happen if its done poorly. But it could equally be a great show if its done well.
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