RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,631
Posts: 5,427,391
Members: 24,810
Currently online: 526
Newest member: Rom

TrekToday headlines

Trek Messenger Bag
By: T'Bonz on Sep 18

Star Trek Live In Concert In Australia
By: T'Bonz on Sep 18

IDW Publishing December Trek Comics
By: T'Bonz on Sep 17

September Loot Crate Features Trek Surprise
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

USS Enterprise Miniature Out For Refit
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

Star Trek/Planet of the Apes Comic Crossover
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

Trek 3 Shooting Next Spring?
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

Star Trek: Alien Domain Game Announced
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Red Shirt Diaries Episode Three
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Made Out Of Mudd Photonovel
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > TV & Media

TV & Media Non-Trek television, movies, books, music, etc.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 10 2014, 07:00 PM   #91
bigdaddy
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Space Massachusetts
Re: Cosmos - With Neil deGrasse Tyson

I don't understand this anti religion thing dealing with the show, I saw the part everyone is complaining about. It's a fact that the Catholic Church throughout history has done horrible things to scientist because if you prove science less people give your cult... I mean religion money. I hang out with a friend's friends / co-workers, all of them are physicists and 80-90% of them believe in God and are religious. Science still can not explain how everything started so you can be both. But you can't throw out science just because of religion.
__________________
The powerful play goes on, and you may contribute a verse.
bigdaddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10 2014, 07:11 PM   #92
AgentCoop
Fleet Captain
 
AgentCoop's Avatar
 
Location: Chillin' in the Black Lodge since June 10th, 1991
View AgentCoop's Twitter Profile
Re: Cosmos - With Neil deGrasse Tyson

^I agree. I'm no fan of religion, but I thought the show was pretty clear that it was condemning the specific actions of the religious establishment of the time as opposed to attacking religion in general.
AgentCoop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10 2014, 07:44 PM   #93
davejames
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Sac, Ca
Re: Cosmos - With Neil deGrasse Tyson

Hmm, only 5.8 million viewers on the main Fox channel. Here's hoping the accumulated number for all the other channels will be a bit better.

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment...#axzz2vaRD3xfb
davejames is online now   Reply With Quote
Old March 10 2014, 07:48 PM   #94
bigdaddy
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Space Massachusetts
Re: Cosmos - With Neil deGrasse Tyson

AgentCoop wrote: View Post
^I agree. I'm no fan of religion, but I thought the show was pretty clear that it was condemning the specific actions of the religious establishment of the time as opposed to attacking religion in general.
Exactly. Throughout history different groups or governments have always done terrible things, it doesn't mean the whole religion is bad. Hell I'd be a Christian if they ever followed their own beliefs of God is love and loves everyone, but that's a completely other topic.

But look at the USA, the country is founded on freedoms, yet for most of it's history had slavery being legal. Yet we aren't going to ignore that part of our history because it's embarrassing. I feel that's what the people complaint about that part of the show want, just ignore what they don't like. But they do that with The Bible, so why not life? But I digress.
__________________
The powerful play goes on, and you may contribute a verse.
bigdaddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10 2014, 09:16 PM   #95
Ancient Mariner
Rear Admiral
 
Ancient Mariner's Avatar
 
Location: Sailing for adventure on the Big Blue Wet Thing™
View Ancient Mariner's Twitter Profile
Re: Cosmos - With Neil deGrasse Tyson

davejames wrote: View Post
Hmm, only 5.8 million viewers on the main Fox channel. Here's hoping the accumulated number for all the other channels will be a bit better.

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment...#axzz2vaRD3xfb
I don't think I'm alone in saying that while my enjoyment of the show isn't dictated by the numbers it pulls in ... I'm also cheering for it to also be a big success. So to put those numbers in another context:

The on-network component did reasonably well and was FOX's top show overall, but it ran into the unexpected "Resurrection" buzzsaw in the 9 p.m. hour. The FOX portion of "Cosmos" did top "Resurrection" among men 18-34.
__________________
Ancient Mariner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10 2014, 10:23 PM   #96
davejames
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Sac, Ca
Re: Cosmos - With Neil deGrasse Tyson

bigdaddy wrote: View Post
I hang out with a friend's friends / co-workers, all of them are physicists and 80-90% of them believe in God and are religious. Science still can not explain how everything started so you can be both. But you can't throw out science just because of religion.
I know science doesn't yet have all the answers, but it will always be baffling to me how any scientist can practice the scientific method or look at the geological record (where even in the reduced timescale of the Earth we humans only show up in the last two minutes of the day), and still hold onto such a simplistic and primitive explanation. Or think we have some "special connection" to the Creator of the Universe.

The possibilities of what could have "started" the Universe are so many that it seems bizarre to just narrow it down to one thing. Or to think that it must be a living entity of some sort that needs... worshiping.
davejames is online now   Reply With Quote
Old March 10 2014, 10:33 PM   #97
Yminale
Rear Admiral
 
Location: Democratically Liberated America
Re: Cosmos - With Neil deGrasse Tyson

Shatnertage wrote: View Post
I didn't think it was anti-religion at all; after all, it did mention that Copernicus was a priest, and that Bruno was hardly an atheist. It seemed more anti-authority than anything, which is a dangerous thing at a time when science speaks with authority.
The section on Bruno was the second worst part of the show (the mind numbing eye candy made the show almost unwatchable but what do you expect from Brannon Braga). It's based on 19th century scholarship tainted by anti-Catholicism. Bruno and Galileo were both victims of the Protestant Reformation (a POLITICAL conflict between European monarchies and the Catholic Church). If they were born 50 years before, they would have been treated as cranks. Europeans only accepted the idea of an infinite universe after the widespread use of the telescope, not because of Bruno's crazy fantasies.
__________________
This Space for Rent
Yminale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10 2014, 10:49 PM   #98
Yminale
Rear Admiral
 
Location: Democratically Liberated America
Re: Cosmos - With Neil deGrasse Tyson

bigdaddy wrote: View Post
I don't understand this anti religion thing dealing with the show, I saw the part everyone is complaining about. It's a fact that the Catholic Church throughout history has done horrible things to scientist because if you prove science less people give your cult... I mean religion money.
That's a childish simplification of a complex situation. With the "religious monies" the Catholic Church was one of the biggest sponsors of science, medicine, education and the arts for the last 200 years. After a mere 20 years after Galileo's trial, the Jesuits were teaching his theories (minus his book of course) in their universities. They also quick adopted Newton even though he was Protestant and a known heretic. Did you also know the Big Bang theory came from a Belgian priest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lema%C3%AEtre


I hang out with a friend's friends / co-workers, all of them are physicists and 80-90% of them believe in God and are religious. Science still can not explain how everything started so you can be both. But you can't throw out science just because of religion.
Sure and some people want to reciprocate by throwing out religion because of science.
__________________
This Space for Rent
Yminale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10 2014, 10:56 PM   #99
Herkimer Jitty
Rear Admiral
 
Herkimer Jitty's Avatar
 
Location: Dayglow, New California Republic
Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to Herkimer Jitty
Re: Cosmos - With Neil deGrasse Tyson

Axe, meet grindstone.

The rest of us have yet to meet "giving a shit".
__________________
STAR TREK: 1965-1965½, 1966-1969, Jan. 21-23 1972, 1979-2005, 2009-?
Herkimer Jitty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10 2014, 11:20 PM   #100
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Cosmos - With Neil deGrasse Tyson

davejames wrote: View Post
I know science doesn't yet have all the answers, but it will always be baffling to me how any scientist can practice the scientific method or look at the geological record (where even in the reduced timescale of the Earth we humans only show up in the last two minutes of the day), and still hold onto such a simplistic and primitive explanation. Or think we have some "special connection" to the Creator of the Universe.
Which explanation are you talking about? It sounds to me like you're confusing belief in God with belief in young-Earth Creationism, and nothing could be further from the truth. And there are many different ways of defining God beyond what's written down in a book somewhere. Even within a single religion, there are numerous interpretations of God, and of course there are many religions on this planet that do not count the Bible among their sacred texts.

And no, you don't have to believe we're somehow special in the eye of God in order to believe that there is some kind of generative force behind the universe -- even if that force bears no resemblance to the way it's described in any specific religious text. Remember what Tyson said at the start of the episode: Science is about questioning preconceptions and seeking answers through testing hypotheses. Thus, scientists who believe in God are generally willing to admit that they don't entirely know what God is, and they do science in hopes of finding out. Dogmatic religion is about insisting you have all the answers, but that's just a power trip. There are many spiritual people in the world who understand that you can't truly begin to find wisdom until you admit that you don't have the answers at all.



Yminale wrote: View Post
(the mind numbing eye candy made the show almost unwatchable but what do you expect from Brannon Braga).
It continues to amaze me how consistently the people who want to insult Brannon Braga end up insulting his collaborators instead by ignoring their contributions completely and talking as though Braga were the sole auteur. Braga is merely one of four executive producers here, along with Ann Druyan, Seth MacFarlane, and Mitchell Cannold. The creative team for the show includes Druyan and Steven Soter, Sagan's collaborators on the original Cosmos, as well as Tyson, MacFarlane, and Braga. This is not Braga's show, he's just one of the people working on it.

I mean, me, I can't stand Seth MacFarlane's shows, and I was worried deeply when I heard he'd be involved with this; but I understand that this isn't his work alone, that he's just using his clout to get Tyson and Druyan and Soter's project on the air. They're the minds behind Cosmos, but they need established TV talent to help them, and that's what MacFarlane and Braga are doing.


Europeans only accepted the idea of an infinite universe after the widespread use of the telescope, not because of Bruno's crazy fantasies.
Yes, and that is exactly what the story showed: That Bruno's visions of an infinite universe were not accepted until Galileo's telescopic discoveries came along after his death.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is online now   Reply With Quote
Old March 10 2014, 11:34 PM   #101
Yminale
Rear Admiral
 
Location: Democratically Liberated America
Re: Cosmos - With Neil deGrasse Tyson

Christopher wrote: View Post
They're the minds behind Cosmos, but they need established TV talent to help them, and that's what MacFarlane and Braga are doing.
Dumbing down Cosmos does no one any favors. If Tyson and his gang wanted to remake Cosmos, they could have gone to PBS (you know like Carl Sagan). Of course no eye candy and no expensive perks for it's star.


Yes, and that is exactly what the story showed: That Bruno's visions of an infinite universe were not accepted until Galileo's telescopic discoveries came along after his death.
So why bring up Bruno up in the first place. Why not bring up the story of the invention of the telescope and Galileo. Oh no we can't because we would have to mention Arabs and their work in optics and that would make us un-American. It's better to bash Catholics because they would complain less.

Whatever. This show is crap and Tyson owes me one hour I lost watching it.
__________________
This Space for Rent
Yminale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10 2014, 11:45 PM   #102
Mr. Laser Beam
Fleet Admiral
 
Mr. Laser Beam's Avatar
 
Location: The visitor's bullpen
View Mr. Laser Beam's Twitter Profile
Re: Cosmos - With Neil deGrasse Tyson

How many episodes does this new version have?
__________________
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
Mr. Laser Beam is online now   Reply With Quote
Old March 10 2014, 11:57 PM   #103
J. Allen
Taste The Rainbow™
 
J. Allen's Avatar
 
Location: Equestria
Send a message via ICQ to J. Allen Send a message via AIM to J. Allen Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to J. Allen Send a message via Yahoo to J. Allen
Re: Cosmos - With Neil deGrasse Tyson

Yminale wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
They're the minds behind Cosmos, but they need established TV talent to help them, and that's what MacFarlane and Braga are doing.
Dumbing down Cosmos does no one any favors. If Tyson and his gang wanted to remake Cosmos, they could have gone to PBS (you know like Carl Sagan). Of course no eye candy and no expensive perks for it's star.


Yes, and that is exactly what the story showed: That Bruno's visions of an infinite universe were not accepted until Galileo's telescopic discoveries came along after his death.
So why bring up Bruno up in the first place. Why not bring up the story of the invention of the telescope and Galileo. Oh no we can't because we would have to mention Arabs and their work in optics and that would make us un-American. It's better to bash Catholics because they would complain less.

Whatever. This show is crap and Tyson owes me one hour I lost watching it.
This episode is a primer. It's meant to get people drawn in. Show some beautiful shots, slip in a few details about the planets, and then really give some perspective about just how small we are. To say it's being "dumbed down" is disingenuous, as the whole purpose of Cosmos is to bring real science to the masses, and to make it appealing.

If you're going to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe.
__________________
I tried to make a deal with the Devil, once. Turns out I didn't have anything he wanted.
-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
You will never find a more welcome hive of love and humility.
J. Allen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10 2014, 11:58 PM   #104
Spider
Dirty Old Man
 
Spider's Avatar
 
Location: Lost in time
Re: Cosmos - With Neil deGrasse Tyson

I thought the first show was merely OK. I hope it gets better. Nothing new was presented except nice special effects. I think How the Universe Works is a much better science show on this topic.
__________________
Go and have another beer, Grog Mod. - Orac Zen

spider's new motto: So many Lounge bars, so little time. - DAK

At my age you take what you can get. Or invent. - Mallory
Spider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 11 2014, 12:11 AM   #105
Yminale
Rear Admiral
 
Location: Democratically Liberated America
Re: Cosmos - With Neil deGrasse Tyson

J. Allen wrote: View Post
This episode is a primer. It's meant to get people drawn in.
Then it's doomed to fail. As soon as you replace the CGI with real science, people will get bored and change the channel.

To say it's being "dumbed down" is disingenuous, as the whole purpose of Cosmos is to bring real science to the masses, and to make it appealing.
After 30 years of bringing "science to the masses", guess what we've accomplished. NOTHING according to the latest studies. Americans are more ignorant now than in the time of Carl Sagan even though the public had access to more and better quality science shows.
__________________
This Space for Rent
Yminale is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:06 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.