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Old September 10 2013, 09:44 PM   #1216
Dr.H
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Jennifer Garner says that Affleck has a take on Batman

I take it to confirm that Affleck will be the saving grace for this film.
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Old September 10 2013, 11:13 PM   #1217
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Dr.H wrote: View Post
Not to mention Zack Snyder's signature imprints are splattered all over the film's second and third act.
I actually think Snyder's direction was pretty far removed from his usual style. A signature Snyder action sequence would have loads of slow motion. If you want an example of a signature Zach Snyder sequence I would say look no further than 'Sucker Punch' that film is unabashedly Snyder.
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Old September 11 2013, 12:15 AM   #1218
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

^Yeah, but the signature here is that the action overwhelmed the story, at least in the third act. Snyder's work isn't generally characterized by restraint, and the sheer pointless excess of the destruction in Act 3 ruined the movie for me.
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Old September 11 2013, 12:37 AM   #1219
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Christopher wrote: View Post
^Yeah, but the signature here is that the action overwhelmed the story, at least in the third act. Snyder's work isn't generally characterized by restraint, and the sheer pointless excess of the destruction in Act 3 ruined the movie for me.
Yeah, I could stand to lose 10-15 minutes of demolition easily in exchange for scenes of Superman putting his powers to work helping in the aftermath with rescues, cleanup and rebuilding and really cementing relations with the people of Metropolis.

Then you slow-dissolve to the desert and the spy satellite torpedoing into the ground. It was far too quick a tone-shift to go from Zod's neck snapping to, "I think he's hot."
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Old September 11 2013, 12:55 AM   #1220
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Trevacious wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
^Yeah, but the signature here is that the action overwhelmed the story, at least in the third act. Snyder's work isn't generally characterized by restraint, and the sheer pointless excess of the destruction in Act 3 ruined the movie for me.
Yeah, I could stand to lose 10-15 minutes of demolition easily in exchange for scenes of Superman putting his powers to work helping in the aftermath with rescues, cleanup and rebuilding and really cementing relations with the people of Metropolis.

Then you slow-dissolve to the desert and the spy satellite torpedoing into the ground. It was far too quick a tone-shift to go from Zod's neck snapping to, "I think he's hot."
For me, it was not necessarily the level of destruction. This is the type of thing we see in the comics. It was meant to be horrifying and it was. What was missing though was some attempt on the part of Superman to prevent the destruction. So, when he saves the one family at the end, we are left thinking why is he saving them and not the thousands of people he just let die.
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Old September 11 2013, 12:58 AM   #1221
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Trevacious wrote: View Post
Then you slow-dissolve to the desert and the spy satellite torpedoing into the ground. It was far too quick a tone-shift to go from Zod's neck snapping to, "I think he's hot."
The poor female solider was suppose to be heading over to a Marvel Studios movie, but got lost and ended up in MOS!
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Old September 11 2013, 01:05 AM   #1222
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

theenglish wrote: View Post
For me, it was not necessarily the level of destruction. This is the type of thing we see in the comics. It was meant to be horrifying and it was. What was missing though was some attempt on the part of Superman to prevent the destruction. So, when he saves the one family at the end, we are left thinking why is he saving them and not the thousands of people he just let die.
For me it was both. Mainly it was the callousness of having all this destruction without Superman doing a thing about it, but it was also the duration of it. When the city-smashing had finally died down and we had a lull and then Superman and Zod started going one-on-one and buildings started collapsing again, I was yelling "Seriously?" at the screen and very, very sorely tempted to storm out of the theater. It was just too much. Action films today are too driven to excess.

But also it was the sheer superficiality of it. You could remove all that devastation without it affecting the plot, characters, or dialogue in any way. It had no impact on the story whatsoever. If you read a dialogue-only transcript of the film, you probably wouldn't even know that most of Metropolis had been destroyed. It wasn't even part of the story. It was completely gratuitous, tacked-on spectacle.

Not to mention that it was stupid. Skyscrapers don't collapse like houses of cards the moment something slams into them. They're designed not to fall down. If Zod tossed Superman through a building with superstrength, sure, he'd punch a man-sized hole through the building, but the building would probably survive.

So on multiple levels, from plot to character to story logic to basic physics and engineering, that destruction simply should not have happened. And yet it dominated the film for a huge amount of time.
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Old September 11 2013, 01:10 AM   #1223
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

I'm not sure it's fair to put all that blame on Snyder though. You gotta think that a lot of the action was written into the script with Snyder just following that. Now this is merely an assumption on my part, it could very well be Snyder's doing...

On the subject of the destruction though, the part I and my friend both chuckled at was the part where Superman is thrown through the gas station in Smallville then the damn thing explodes(!) We both looked at each other and said "Yep, there goes a whole bunch of people."
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Old September 11 2013, 01:18 AM   #1224
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Aldo wrote: View Post
Dr.H wrote: View Post
Not to mention Zack Snyder's signature imprints are splattered all over the film's second and third act.
I actually think Snyder's direction was pretty far removed from his usual style. A signature Snyder action sequence would have loads of slow motion. If you want an example of a signature Zach Snyder sequence I would say look no further than 'Sucker Punch' that film is unabashedly Snyder.
It's dialed down, but there's still those seething remnants of it that are bottled within the film that come popping out in full force in the final act, free from the shackles of constraint. The final act(sans the slo-mo') is vintage Snyder.
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Old September 11 2013, 01:19 AM   #1225
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Christopher wrote: View Post
theenglish wrote: View Post
For me, it was not necessarily the level of destruction. This is the type of thing we see in the comics. It was meant to be horrifying and it was. What was missing though was some attempt on the part of Superman to prevent the destruction. So, when he saves the one family at the end, we are left thinking why is he saving them and not the thousands of people he just let die.
For me it was both. Mainly it was the callousness of having all this destruction without Superman doing a thing about it, but it was also the duration of it. When the city-smashing had finally died down and we had a lull and then Superman and Zod started going one-on-one and buildings started collapsing again, I was yelling "Seriously?" at the screen and very, very sorely tempted to storm out of the theater. It was just too much. Action films today are too driven to excess.

But also it was the sheer superficiality of it. You could remove all that devastation without it affecting the plot, characters, or dialogue in any way. It had no impact on the story whatsoever. If you read a dialogue-only transcript of the film, you probably wouldn't even know that most of Metropolis had been destroyed. It wasn't even part of the story. It was completely gratuitous, tacked-on spectacle.

Not to mention that it was stupid. Skyscrapers don't collapse like houses of cards the moment something slams into them. They're designed not to fall down. If Zod tossed Superman through a building with superstrength, sure, he'd punch a man-sized hole through the building, but the building would probably survive.

So on multiple levels, from plot to character to story logic to basic physics and engineering, that destruction simply should not have happened. And yet it dominated the film for a huge amount of time.
Only two buildings were destroyed during the fight between zod and Superman, one by Zod's heat vision and the other came down after Zod threw a tanker truck into it. Any building that was destroyed before that was the result of being hit a Krytonian gravity beam and the missiles fired by the Raptors.
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Old September 11 2013, 01:23 AM   #1226
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Dr.H wrote: View Post
Aldo wrote: View Post
Dr.H wrote: View Post
Not to mention Zack Snyder's signature imprints are splattered all over the film's second and third act.
I actually think Snyder's direction was pretty far removed from his usual style. A signature Snyder action sequence would have loads of slow motion. If you want an example of a signature Zach Snyder sequence I would say look no further than 'Sucker Punch' that film is unabashedly Snyder.
It's dialed down, but there's still those seething remnants of it that are bottled within the film that come popping out in full force in the final act, free from the shackles of constraint. The final act(sans the slo-mo') is vintage Snyder.
I actually wished Snyder had employed slo-mo during the final action sequence. Sure it would still have been mindless action, but at least it would have been stylistically mindless action.
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Old September 11 2013, 01:25 AM   #1227
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Aldo wrote: View Post
I'm not sure it's fair to put all that blame on Snyder though. You gotta think that a lot of the action was written into the script with Snyder just following that. Now this is merely an assumption on my part, it could very well be Snyder's doing...
You're right, it was in the script. Goyer confirmed it in this interview he did right here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOoSSrYt-Sk

Look at the 5:24 mark.
But Snyder certainly played a part in the depiction of it, listen to Snyder's hilarious justification of the massive death toll.

Zack Snyder on mass destruction wrote: View Post
I wanted the movie to have a mythological feeling. In ancient mythology, mass deaths are used to symbolize disasters. In other countries like Greece and Japan, myths were recounted through the generations, partly to answer unanswerable questions about death and violence. In America, we don’t have that legacy of ancient mythology. Superman (who first appeared in ‘Action Comics’ in 1938) is probably the closest we get. It’s a way of recounting the myth.”
http://www.vulture.com/2013/08/zach-...struction.html




Last edited by Dr.H; September 11 2013 at 01:38 AM.
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Old September 11 2013, 02:18 AM   #1228
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

As much as I'll defend Snyder, that seems to be missing the point of Superman. Oh well, what's done is done. I do long for a day when Superman can be the overgrown boyscout again, and his weakness is that he tries to save everyone all the time.
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Old September 11 2013, 02:27 AM   #1229
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Snyder was probably my biggest problem with Man of Steel and the biggest element I'm worried about with this Batman/Superman film.

Sure, Goyer isn't the best writer either, but when he's paired with a talented director (Christopher Nolan, Guillermo del Toro) he can usually deliver solid results. That's why I'm hoping Affleck will have some influence on the story or direction - Affleck is a much stronger writer/director than Snyder and Goyer combined.

I'm also hoping another writer gets brought on-board to strengthen the script (a la Jonathan Nolan), but I'm not holding my breath. What's worse is that Christopher Nolan is playing a much more backseat role this time around, so it is possible Snyder will be even less restrained with this one.
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Old September 11 2013, 02:43 AM   #1230
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Dr.H wrote: View Post
Aldo wrote: View Post
I'm not sure it's fair to put all that blame on Snyder though. You gotta think that a lot of the action was written into the script with Snyder just following that. Now this is merely an assumption on my part, it could very well be Snyder's doing...
You're right, it was in the script. Goyer confirmed it in this interview he did right here.
Makes little difference. In Hollywood feature films, screenwriters have no power; they're seen as hired contractors whose job is to write what the director and producer tell them to write. The specific words and connective tissue come from the writers, but the decisions about the key story points, about what goes in the film and what doesn't, come from the director and producer.

That's why Goyer's record as a screenwriter is so inconsistent, why -- as JacksonArcher said -- the quality of his work depends on the quality of the director overseeing it. It's because the director is the one making the real decisions.
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