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Old July 26 2014, 11:40 PM   #3061
urbandefault
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

When did this thread turn into a Marvel vs DC thing?

I want to see stuff about the new movie. I don't give a damn about what happened in the comics. Respectfully, argue about it somewhere else. There's plenty of room in the BBS for that stuff.

What's new with the freaking movie?
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Old July 26 2014, 11:40 PM   #3062
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

You just gave yourself the answer. If people could livestream it then they'd stay home and wait rather than go
E3 doesn't struggle and yes while there more of an interactive purpose there, Comic Con would not suffer because the people who go will always go (The Q & A stuff one big reason). The stuff that either takes ages to get to the public from Comic Con or never does really pisses me off in this day n age.
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Old July 26 2014, 11:43 PM   #3063
Nerys Myk
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Bad Bishop wrote: View Post
AllStarEntprise wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Sounds like a rationalization on Marvel's part. It's pretty obvious they want a successful female character along the lines Wonder Woman.
I agree with Nerys. When I think of women in Marvel who are heroes, I think

Sue Storm
She-Hulk
Storm
Rogue
Jean Grey
Rogue
Kitty Pryde
Scarlett With
Black Widow
Black Cat
Captain Marvel (Carol Danvers)

All of them are easily recognizable but there's no Wonder Woman among them. The closet one would be Jean Grey but they keep dicking her character around and killing her off. Sue Storm is called the First Lady of Marvel but she's not very interesting nor has she been given much profile above supportive team member, wife and mother.
One of our TrekBBS friends (sorry, his name eludes me) is a huge Ms. Marvel (Carol Danvers) booster. He maintains that Ms. Marvel is the A-list answer to WW. I like Ms. Marvel too and hope that the studio will at least introduce her in Avengers 3.
That might be true if Ms Marvel was actually an A list character. Sadly shes never broken the glass ceiling, even with a name change to Captain Marvel.
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Old July 26 2014, 11:46 PM   #3064
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

AllStarEntprise wrote: View Post
^ Oh word? Do you have the issue number or the name of the trade it's in? I don't dislike Sue it's just she doesn't have the star power of some of other female characters and for me at least she always seemed, well invisible. I know she's there, but things usually came down to Reed's genius or Johnny doing something. Thing is there to take the punches and frequently be made the whipping boy to other heavy hitters in the Marvel verse.
The Wolverine exchange is from Wolverine: Enemy of the State volume one, ISBN # 0-77851-1815-2.

The best example of Sue handling Reed's business concerns that I can think of off the top of my head is in the second volume of Jonathon Hickman's run, the arc where they discovered the lost Atlanteans. (ISBN 978-0785145417)

This arc eventually forced her to mediate a peace between the lost Atlanteans and the leader of the modern Atlanteans-- Namor the Submariner-- Dun-Dun-Duuuun!

Also-- her forcefield has held off the Hulk and Mjolner. She has used it, more than once, to protect the entire island of Manhattan. It is an upper-tier power set.
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Old July 26 2014, 11:48 PM   #3065
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
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I've heard it said that Marvel has enough A-list female characters already that it doesn't need a singular "Wonder Woman," and that this is a good thing because it spares any single character the responsibility to stand for all women and be some kind of all-encompassing paragon as Wonder Woman is often called upon to be.
Sounds like a rationalization on Marvel's part. It's pretty obvious they want a successful female character along the lines Wonder Woman.
It didn't come from Marvel. IIRC, the sentiment was expressed by feminist comics critic Kelly Thompson. In 2010, she wrote:

So Wonder Woman (both the character and the book) keep getting saddled with this heavy burden of being all women all the time, and of embodying perfection. But because there are seemingly infinite marquee male leads in comics – Superman, Batman, Green Lantern, Flash, Captain America, Iron Man, Thor, Wolverine, – you can take your pick, and they can all signify different takes on heroes in comics. But when you boil it down there is only one long running marquee heroine in comics – Wonder Woman. So she has to cover ALL the bases – and it’s just too much load for any one character (or book) to bear, and she’s constantly buckling under it. It’s impossible for Diana to be all things to all people and it’s the primary reason I think that she (and her book) are so often considered a disappointment despite the brilliant creators, writers, and artists often at the helm.
She's also spoken positively about the strong slate of female heroes and creators headlining Marvel books lately, and been very critical of DC's continued marginalization and sexualization of most of their female characters. Although I'm afraid I can't find a quote to back up what I recall her saying about Marvel's heroines not having the same "every woman" burden as Wonder Woman -- I can't remember the right search terms -- so I can't guarantee that my recollection is accurate. But it's absolutely not a statement from Marvel itself, I can assure you of that much.


Turtletrekker wrote: View Post
Susan Richards is regulary portrayed as the most powerful member of the team as well as team leader whenever Reed is out of the picture.

She coordinates the logistics and handles and personel issues of Reed's scientific endeavors and charitable works and handles all of the business aspects of the operation that Reed is too busy for on top of being a supportive team member, wife and mother.
...
While I agree that an Invisible Woman solo movie is extremely unlikely to happen (as she is too closely associated to the team), don't simply dismiss the character as a housewife with super-powers.
In the Jonathan Hickman run, she's also a world-class diplomat, the person that the various non-human nations on Earth (like Atlantis, the Inhumans, etc.) turn to when they need someone to negotiate peace in the most delicate and dangerous situations. Oh, and I think she's Atlantean royalty somehow.

Not to mention that she's the mother of the most powerful mutant child on Earth and a 3-year-old girl who's even more of a supergenius than Reed Richards. Even aside from what that says about her own genes, she'd have to be an extraordinary human being to handle children like that.

The thing is, I can understand why people who don't currently read the comics would have a low opinion of Sue. She was originally a pretty weak character in the '60s comics, and many of the cartoon and film adaptations have been closer to that version. (Though she was the most impressive element of the generally disappointing FF: World's Greatest Heroes cartoon from 2006.) But in the past few decades she's grown into a character who is every bit the Marvel counterpart of Wonder Woman in her power, poise, diplomacy, empathy, and ferocity in defense of those she protects. Yes, she's part of a team, but more than that: She's the head of a family, the anchor that holds it together. And that is a source of power in its own right. I understand the desire for solo heroines who can headline their own movies, as a counterpart to all the solo male heroes out there; but solitude is not automatically strength.
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Old July 26 2014, 11:54 PM   #3066
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Just give us a Bird's or Prey movie. That'll satisfy the masses.
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Old July 27 2014, 12:01 AM   #3067
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Christopher wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
I've heard it said that Marvel has enough A-list female characters already that it doesn't need a singular "Wonder Woman," and that this is a good thing because it spares any single character the responsibility to stand for all women and be some kind of all-encompassing paragon as Wonder Woman is often called upon to be.
Sounds like a rationalization on Marvel's part. It's pretty obvious they want a successful female character along the lines Wonder Woman.
It didn't come from Marvel. IIRC, the sentiment was expressed by feminist comics critic Kelly Thompson. In 2010, she wrote:


She's also spoken positively about the strong slate of female heroes and creators headlining Marvel books lately, and been very critical of DC's continued marginalization and sexualization of most of their female characters. Although I'm afraid I can't find a quote to back up what I recall her saying about Marvel's heroines not having the same "every woman" burden as Wonder Woman -- I can't remember the right search terms -- so I can't guarantee that my recollection is accurate. But it's absolutely not a statement from Marvel itself, I can assure you of that much.
I think Thompson might be doing some rationalization as well. Though she's right about the sexualization. Still, DC easily beats Marvel in the number of woman headlining books and employs equal to or more woman as Marvel. Though that might change with the move West.

Yes, the WW character carries a heavy burden, but that's for all female superheroes, not just DC's. The reason being, she's the most recognizable one. No one at Marvel has ever stepped up to plate to share the load. Even in the films Storm and Black Widow are secondary to the male heroes.
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Old July 27 2014, 12:18 AM   #3068
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Yes, the WW character carries a heavy burden, but that's for all female superheroes, not just DC's. The reason being, she's the most recognizable one. No one at Marvel has ever stepped up to plate to share the load. Even in the films Storm and Black Widow are secondary to the male heroes.
Change takes time, and Marvel seems to be going in the right direction, from what I'm hearing.

And Black Widow in The Winter Soldier felt to me like a coequal lead to Captain America, regardless of the title. She didn't seem secondary to me. Although I can't say I'm impressed by how the X-Men films have handled Storm, starting by completely miscasting her.

The thing is, if you want the films to be at the vanguard of gender equality, you're looking in the wrong place. Movie studios are conservative and pandering to an increasingly narrow audience. There's more progressiveness, more willingness to take risks, in comics and television. Marvel and DC both have a bunch of female-led titles (though I haven't heard good thing about how DC's handled most of theirs); television is bringing us Agent Carter and Jessica Jones from Marvel and iZombie from DC/Vertigo; and movies have... nothing definite in the works, aside from murmurs about a solo Wonder Woman movie at some point.

I suspect that Marvel is using the female-led TV shows as trial balloons -- if they do well, maybe it'll be proof of concept for going ahead with a female-led movie or two.
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Old July 27 2014, 12:24 AM   #3069
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Christopher wrote: View Post
Movie studios are conservative and pandering to an increasingly narrow audience.
Christopher, I'm having trouble wrapping my head around this assertion. Based on the successes over the past decade or so, it seems to me that the audiences of superhero action pictures are growing.
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Old July 27 2014, 12:45 AM   #3070
Nerys Myk
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Christopher wrote:
There's more progressiveness, more willingness to take risks, in comics and television. Marvel and DC both have a bunch of female-led titles (though I haven't heard good thing about how DC's handled most of theirs)
They don't treat their female characters any worse or better than the male ones. Though Wonder Woman is probably one or the best written comics out there, male or female, right now.
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Old July 27 2014, 12:49 AM   #3071
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
Movie studios are conservative and pandering to an increasingly narrow audience.
Christopher, I'm having trouble wrapping my head around this assertion. Based on the successes over the past decade or so, it seems to me that the audiences of superhero action pictures are growing.
I didn't say "small," I said "narrow," as in demographic diversity. The studios preferentially target their action movies toward male audiences of a certain age range and a certain set of tastes. Moviegoing itself is done by a narrower segment of the population than it used to be, partly because of the cost of it, partly because of the increasing availability of alternative forms of entertainment. So it's harder to convince feature film studios to put a woman or a black or Asian actor in the lead role of a movie than it is -- these days -- to convince a TV network to do the same. We have an increasing number of black female leads in TV shows over the past few years, but still a dearth in features. As I said, we have three female-led comics-based TV shows coming in the next season but nothing in movies for years to come. It's quite clear that TV is engaging with a broader audience -- again, broader, not larger -- than movies are. All we can do is hope the increasing gender and ethnic diversity in TV has staying power and influences movie studios to follow suit.
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Old July 27 2014, 12:49 AM   #3072
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Is that a picture of Batman wearing the Superman-fighting suit from the end of DKR????????

*nerdgasm*
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Old July 27 2014, 12:55 AM   #3073
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Christopher wrote: View Post
CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
Movie studios are conservative and pandering to an increasingly narrow audience.
Christopher, I'm having trouble wrapping my head around this assertion. Based on the successes over the past decade or so, it seems to me that the audiences of superhero action pictures are growing.
I didn't say "small," I said "narrow," as in demographic diversity. The studios preferentially target their action movies toward male audiences of a certain age range and a certain set of tastes. Moviegoing itself is done by a narrower segment of the population than it used to be, partly because of the cost of it, partly because of the increasing availability of alternative forms of entertainment. So it's harder to convince feature film studios to put a woman or a black or Asian actor in the lead role of a movie than it is -- these days -- to convince a TV network to do the same. We have an increasing number of black female leads in TV shows over the past few years, but still a dearth in features. As I said, we have three female-led comics-based TV shows coming in the next season but nothing in movies for years to come. It's quite clear that TV is engaging with a broader audience -- again, broader, not larger -- than movies are. All we can do is hope the increasing gender and ethnic diversity in TV has staying power and influences movie studios to follow suit.
Given that international sales are important too, it's still hard for me to connect the dots here.
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Old July 27 2014, 01:05 AM   #3074
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Spoilers

Honestly Bats, I think you need to walk away from this one.
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Old July 27 2014, 01:17 AM   #3075
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

That bat shape is pretty lame on the bat signal and not a fan of the glowing eye look for bats at all. Do like the bulk of the suit bats is wearing.
As far as WW, I think she looks pretty good with the exception of the sword which appears kind of tiny. Of course after watching Game of Thrones I may be spoiled by swords especially the one the Mountain used.
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