RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 141,443
Posts: 5,507,563
Members: 25,133
Currently online: 495
Newest member: jokerone

TrekToday headlines

Retro Review: The Emperor’s New Cloak
By: Michelle on Dec 20

Star Trek Opera
By: T'Bonz on Dec 19

New Abrams Project
By: T'Bonz on Dec 18

IDW Publishing March 2015 Comics
By: T'Bonz on Dec 17

Paramount Star Trek 3 Expectations
By: T'Bonz on Dec 17

Star Trek #39 Sneak Peek
By: T'Bonz on Dec 16

Star Trek 3 Potential Director Shortlist
By: T'Bonz on Dec 16

Official Starships Collection Update
By: T'Bonz on Dec 15

Retro Review: Prodigal Daughter
By: Michelle on Dec 13

Sindicate Lager To Debut In The US Next Week
By: T'Bonz on Dec 12


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy

Science Fiction & Fantasy Farscape, Babylon 5, Star Wars, Firefly, vampires, genre books and film.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old July 22 2013, 03:07 PM   #256
Cartoonist
Captain
 
Cartoonist's Avatar
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Turtletrekker wrote: View Post
Dream wrote: View Post
Cartoonist wrote: View Post
In MoS, Superman kills Zod and then cries out in devastation over what he had to do. Christopher Reeves' Superman gleefully - and unnecessarily - killed a defenseless Zod at the end of Superman II. Did that bother you?
Superman threw Zod against a wall, and he fell. We don't know if Zod was actually killed or not.
Seriously. Ever since MOS came out I keep hearing this line that Superman killed Zod in Superman II and still shocks me every time it comes up. I never, EVER thought or believed for a single second that Supes left them to die and rot at the bottom of that pit any more than I thought he left Luthor there to freeze. And we know that that wasn't the film makers intent because they filmed a scene with Zod and Co. being taken into custody that was only cut for time and pacing reasons.
They included the scene where Superman delivers Luthor (and ONLY Luthor) to jail. Whether they cut a Zod-in-custody scene for timing or for content, the fact remains they cut it, leaving the distinct impression that Luthor was the only one left alive to be taken into custody. Even the Richard Donner cut deletes the scene showing them alive, which leaves us to think he threw Zod to an icy death in that pit that's so deep we don't ever hear him hit bottom.

He also killed them in the comics, after the pocket universe Zod massacred the population on Superboy's Earth (same thing this Zod promised to do in MoS). Superman executed them with kryptonite. Superman also beat Doomsday to death in the comics. So not only was Superman killing consistent with the Reeves film, it was consistent with the comic books.
Cartoonist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 22 2013, 03:14 PM   #257
Greg Cox
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Oxford, PA
Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

And Batman, of course, shot Darkseid with a time-traveling bullet (don't ask!) at the end of FINAL CRISIS . . . .

(The novelization of which is still on sale, btw. )
__________________
www.gregcox-author.com
Greg Cox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 22 2013, 03:25 PM   #258
Dick Whitman
Fleet Captain
 
Location: Behind the mask of Donald Draper
Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

I always thought he killed Zod. So much so that the first time I learned about the pocket universe Zod was in a letter column of a back issue I had found. This would have been in a comic published sometime after that storyline happened. The reader mentioned Superman killing Zod in the comic. My first thought when I saw that was it must have been inspired by Superman II!

People judge and interpret what is in a film by what is on screen. Not by deleted scenes most people have no idea exist. That scene of them falling was shot for a reason. To give them multiple options. If it was the intent that they were always going to survive. Superman could have just punched Zod and walked them all out!
Dick Whitman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 22 2013, 03:33 PM   #259
Set Harth
Rear Admiral
 
Set Harth's Avatar
 
Location: Rhovanion
Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
And Batman, of course, shot Darkseid with a time-traveling bullet
Was that the same Batman who supposedly doesn't use guns?
__________________
Whatever happens on earth, that up there, that's the endgame.
Set Harth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 22 2013, 03:33 PM   #260
Cartoonist
Captain
 
Cartoonist's Avatar
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Out Of My Vulcan Mind wrote: View Post
I wonder if they'll dust off the Weta designs for Batman from Justice League: Mortal and go for the very high tech look Weta reportedly came up with.
I'd be happy with the "Injustice: Gods Among Us" bat suit.
Cartoonist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 22 2013, 03:34 PM   #261
Greg Cox
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Oxford, PA
Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Set Harth wrote: View Post
Greg Cox wrote: View Post
And Batman, of course, shot Darkseid with a time-traveling bullet
Was that the same Batman who supposedly doesn't use guns?
He made an exception in that case!
__________________
www.gregcox-author.com
Greg Cox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 22 2013, 03:42 PM   #262
Set Harth
Rear Admiral
 
Set Harth's Avatar
 
Location: Rhovanion
Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Set Harth wrote: View Post
Greg Cox wrote: View Post
And Batman, of course, shot Darkseid with a time-traveling bullet
Was that the same Batman who supposedly doesn't use guns?
He made an exception in that case!
And in a lot of other cases...
__________________
Whatever happens on earth, that up there, that's the endgame.
Set Harth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 22 2013, 04:04 PM   #263
Dick Whitman
Fleet Captain
 
Location: Behind the mask of Donald Draper
Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

I am glad this debate has exposed something I have never liked.

The only reason these moral codes of Superman and Batman of NEVER killing was created was to appease parents and authority figures. Avoid the issue that ultimately in every single incarnation of Superman and Batman, they work outside the law. To not encourage kids to ignore the rules. Obviously killing is the most serious one. But superheroes suggest that our law enforcement is ineffective.

But the problem is they have before and after those codes were self imposed both have killed. A more accurate description of their moral codes is they TRY to avoid killing people. They do not want to and only do so if they feel like they have no other option.

Of course that is a a little more complicated than most superhero stories and it seems the readers want to deal with.
Dick Whitman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 22 2013, 04:10 PM   #264
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
Even some of the examples on that list have huge gaps...they seem to be counting the Adam West Batman movie, for example....
Yes, but I very much doubt any of those series went on hiatus because the studios decided "Okay, we need to impose an arbitrary 'rest' on the franchise for a decade or so and then bring it back." They stopped making movies only because the movies stopped making money, because audiences lost interest. They came back because a later generation was nostalgic for the franchise or because a new production company acquired the rights and wanted to do something with them or whatever.

This idea that there's some sort of rule about franchises needing to "rest" for a while before returning is most likely an invention of fans, particularly fans who feel that a given franchise has gotten stale. Or maybe it's an excuse made by producers whose last couple of films haven't been profitable or well-received -- rather than just admit that they made disappointing movies, they say, "Well, audiences are burned out and we need to give it a rest for a while until their interest returns." But we have hard evidence that that's bogus. After Star Trek: Nemesis and Enterprise got disappointing reactions, fans and producers alike were saying that ST probably needed to lie fallow for a decade or so -- but then the Paramount/CBS corporate split happened, Paramount needed to get a Trek movie into production within 18 months to retain the movie rights, and so they rebooted the franchise and got a movie into theaters just four years after ENT went off the air, well before this imagined "rest" period had run its course... and it was one of the most financially and critically successful Trek movies of all time.

Franchises don't need to "rest." They just need good movies. If you reboot or revive a franchise by making a good movie -- or at least a popular one, and it can be debated whether those are equivalent -- then audiences will respond to it no matter how much or how little time has passed since the last film.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 11/16/14 including annotations for "The Caress of a Butterfly's Wing" and overview for DTI: The Collectors

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 22 2013, 04:10 PM   #265
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

I'd just call it something like Man of Steel: Metropolis, Superman vs. Batman sounds cheesy.
__________________
"...the most elementary and valuable statement in science, the beginning of wisdom, is I do not know." - Lt. Commander Data, "Where Silence Has Lease"
BillJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 22 2013, 04:12 PM   #266
sojourner
Admiral
 
sojourner's Avatar
 
Location: I'm at WKRP
Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

The other reason for the "no killing" moral codes is that it allows recycling of villains. Can you imagine trying to write years of comics and having to come up with new iconic villains every time?
__________________
Baby, you and me were never meant to be, just maybe think of me once in a while...
sojourner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 22 2013, 04:47 PM   #267
The Baby Stig
Rear Admiral
 
The Baby Stig's Avatar
 
Location: Dunsfold Aerodrome, Surrey
Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

There's zero chance, to my mind, that the Batman in the upcoming MoS sequel will have any resemblance to the Nolan Batman. He will be completely rebooted and the previous continuity will be ignored. Just as well, I'd prefer the excellent Nolan trilogy to be untainted by the shitty MoS and its inevitably shitty sequel.
__________________
Some say that his arrival was foretold by a Check Engine light shining over Bethlehem and that he was born in a manger on Christmas Day.

All we know is, he's The Baby Stig.
The Baby Stig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 22 2013, 04:52 PM   #268
Turtletrekker
Vice Admiral
 
Turtletrekker's Avatar
 
Location: Tacoma, Washington
Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Cartoonist wrote: View Post
Turtletrekker wrote: View Post
Dream wrote: View Post

Superman threw Zod against a wall, and he fell. We don't know if Zod was actually killed or not.
Seriously. Ever since MOS came out I keep hearing this line that Superman killed Zod in Superman II and still shocks me every time it comes up. I never, EVER thought or believed for a single second that Supes left them to die and rot at the bottom of that pit any more than I thought he left Luthor there to freeze. And we know that that wasn't the film makers intent because they filmed a scene with Zod and Co. being taken into custody that was only cut for time and pacing reasons.
They included the scene where Superman delivers Luthor (and ONLY Luthor) to jail. Whether they cut a Zod-in-custody scene for timing or for content, the fact remains they cut it, leaving the distinct impression that Luthor was the only one left alive to be taken into custody. Even the Richard Donner cut deletes the scene showing them alive, which leaves us to think he threw Zod to an icy death in that pit that's so deep we don't ever hear him hit bottom.

He also killed them in the comics, after the pocket universe Zod massacred the population on Superboy's Earth (same thing this Zod promised to do in MoS). Superman executed them with kryptonite. Superman also beat Doomsday to death in the comics. So not only was Superman killing consistent with the Reeves film, it was consistent with the comic books.
No (at least IIRC), we only saw Superman delivering Lex into custody in the first movie. In the second, we see him and Lois flying away from the Fortress while listening to Lex ramble on as they leave. But, as I said, I never believed that Superman left him there to freeze. Besides, the basic rule of thumb in comics is, "If we don't see a body, then they are not dead."

And I know about the comics you mention. I own them, and indeed bought them off the shelf the day they were released. That issue was also the issue that I dropped Superman with becdause, yes, as a reader, I was disturbed by the story.

And as I understand it, his actions in those comics with Zod led to an ongoing series of psychological issues with Clark, rather than the breif "boo-hoo-hoo" we saw in MoS.
__________________
Whatever you celebrate this time of year-- be it Christmas, Hanukah, Ramadan, Kwanza, the Solstice, Life Day, Durin's Day, Festivus or whatever, let it be happy, joyful and safe.
Turtletrekker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 22 2013, 04:55 PM   #269
marksound
Fleet Captain
 
Location: Planet Carcazed
Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Set Harth wrote: View Post
Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Set Harth wrote: View Post

Was that the same Batman who supposedly doesn't use guns?
He made an exception in that case!
And in a lot of other cases...
This is only a little off-topic, but not much.

http://www.collegehumor.com/video/68...-patton-oswalt
marksound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 22 2013, 05:01 PM   #270
Ovation
Vice Admiral
 
Location: La Belle Province or The Green Mountain State (depends on the day of the week)
Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Turtletrekker wrote: View Post
Cartoonist wrote: View Post
Turtletrekker wrote: View Post

Seriously. Ever since MOS came out I keep hearing this line that Superman killed Zod in Superman II and still shocks me every time it comes up. I never, EVER thought or believed for a single second that Supes left them to die and rot at the bottom of that pit any more than I thought he left Luthor there to freeze. And we know that that wasn't the film makers intent because they filmed a scene with Zod and Co. being taken into custody that was only cut for time and pacing reasons.
They included the scene where Superman delivers Luthor (and ONLY Luthor) to jail. Whether they cut a Zod-in-custody scene for timing or for content, the fact remains they cut it, leaving the distinct impression that Luthor was the only one left alive to be taken into custody. Even the Richard Donner cut deletes the scene showing them alive, which leaves us to think he threw Zod to an icy death in that pit that's so deep we don't ever hear him hit bottom.

He also killed them in the comics, after the pocket universe Zod massacred the population on Superboy's Earth (same thing this Zod promised to do in MoS). Superman executed them with kryptonite. Superman also beat Doomsday to death in the comics. So not only was Superman killing consistent with the Reeves film, it was consistent with the comic books.
No (at least IIRC), we only saw Superman delivering Lex into custody in the first movie. In the second, we see him and Lois flying away from the Fortress while listening to Lex ramble on as they leave. But, as I said, I never believed that Superman left him there to freeze. Besides, the basic rule of thumb in comics is, "If we don't see a body, then they are not dead."

And I know about the comics you mention. I own them, and indeed bought them off the shelf the day they were released. That issue was also the issue that I dropped Superman with becdause, yes, as a reader, I was disturbed by the story.

And as I understand it, his actions in those comics with Zod led to an ongoing series of psychological issues with Clark, rather than the breif "boo-hoo-hoo" we saw in MoS.
And how do you know there won't be any further repercussions explored in a future film?
Ovation is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
batman, superman

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:23 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.