RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 138,905
Posts: 5,387,880
Members: 24,718
Currently online: 522
Newest member: Tribblemaker

TrekToday headlines

IDW Publishing November Trek Comic
By: T'Bonz on Aug 20

Pegg/Wright Trilogy In The Works
By: T'Bonz on Aug 20

Star Trek: The Compendium Rebate Details
By: T'Bonz on Aug 20

Gold Key Archives Volume 2
By: T'Bonz on Aug 19

Takei Documentary Wins Award
By: T'Bonz on Aug 19

Cumberbatch To Voice Khan
By: T'Bonz on Aug 19

Shaun And Ed On Phineas and Ferb
By: T'Bonz on Aug 18

New Ships Coming From Official Starships Collection
By: T'Bonz on Aug 18

Trek Stars Take On Ice Bucket Challenge
By: T'Bonz on Aug 18

Retro Review: Profit and Lace
By: Michelle on Aug 16


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy

Science Fiction & Fantasy Farscape, Babylon 5, Star Wars, Firefly, vampires, genre books and film.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old June 12 2014, 07:26 AM   #2581
AllStarEntprise
Fleet Captain
 
AllStarEntprise's Avatar
 
Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Corran Horn wrote: View Post
Dennis wrote: View Post
Corran Horn wrote: View Post

Well, then stop him from flying back. That's why you're Superman.
Killing him put an end to that threat, good and permanent.

Actually, the "throwing him to the Moon" nonsense would have been outside the movie's whole approach to the character. He's not going to be pushing planets out of alignment and righting skyscrapers in one piece at superspeed any time soon.

What Clark did made sense. He had no advantage on Zod at all, and Zod had sworn to destroy humanity. The writers could have given him a gimmick as an out - something like a convenient Phantom Zone projector - but the writers may have been smart enough to know that such silliness was what killed the old Superman comics to begin with.

Corran Horn wrote: View Post
Being raised as Clark Kent is supposed to have rooted him in that sort of attitude for the most part. Otherwise, what's the point of being raised on Earth?
Dunno. Ask some of the boys from Kansas who go to war and kill people in the belief that it's necessary to defend their homes.
I actually have no problem with him killing Zod. A knock-down drag-out fight in the middle of Metropolis while throwing him through skyscrapers is slightly different.
Zod crashed Superman through 6 building. Superman pushed Zod in to two. They also took the fight in to outer space, ya know.
AllStarEntprise is online now   Reply With Quote
Old June 12 2014, 01:23 PM   #2582
Dennis
Commodore
 
Dennis's Avatar
 
Location: Leading a charmed life
Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Ovation wrote: View Post
Indeed. Perhaps I've misunderstood all along.


Nah.
Faster than a speeding bullet...more powerful than a locomotive...able to decapitate douchebags with a single twist...
__________________
"One day it begins to be borne in on the writer...that he is living in Europe as an American. If he were living there as a European, he would be living on a different and far less attractive continent." - James Baldwin

Dennis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 12 2014, 03:59 PM   #2583
Misfit Toy
Caped Trek Mod
 
Misfit Toy's Avatar
 
Location: Transporter buffer
Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Out Of My Vulcan Mind wrote: View Post
Flying Spaghetti Monster wrote: View Post
Guess what? In the original Superman film, we also got Superman on his first day on the job. This bears repeating. His. First. Day.
After years of instruction from Jor-El, and he eased into things as Superman with very easy undertakings before facing his first major test.
Saving a kitty from a tree is JUST LIKE facing an army of hostile Kryptonians.

__________________
Woof.
Misfit Toy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 12 2014, 04:30 PM   #2584
AgentCoop
Fleet Captain
 
AgentCoop's Avatar
 
Location: Chillin' in the Black Lodge since June 10th, 1991
View AgentCoop's Twitter Profile
Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

In all fairness, cats can be pretty mean.
__________________
Two penguins were walking across an iceberg.
One penguin turned to the second penguin and said
"You look like you're wearing a tuxedo."
And the second penguin said "Maybe I am..."
AgentCoop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 12 2014, 04:43 PM   #2585
Dennis
Commodore
 
Dennis's Avatar
 
Location: Leading a charmed life
Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

During his rigorous training with Jor-El's ghost, he fumbled and dropped seventeen cats to their deaths before getting it right.

But of course no one brings that up.
__________________
"One day it begins to be borne in on the writer...that he is living in Europe as an American. If he were living there as a European, he would be living on a different and far less attractive continent." - James Baldwin

Dennis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 12 2014, 06:39 PM   #2586
Mister Fandango
Fleet Captain
 
Mister Fandango's Avatar
 
Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Misfit Toy wrote: View Post
Out Of My Vulcan Mind wrote: View Post
Flying Spaghetti Monster wrote: View Post
Guess what? In the original Superman film, we also got Superman on his first day on the job. This bears repeating. His. First. Day.
After years of instruction from Jor-El, and he eased into things as Superman with very easy undertakings before facing his first major test.
Saving a kitty from a tree is JUST LIKE facing an army of hostile Kryptonians.

It was his first day in a suit.
It wasn't his first day saving people, or even developing and exploring his powers.

And, again, it's the writing people are complaining about. The writers created the situations. The writers decided he was going to kill Zod. The writers fucked Superman up. It wasn't the character's fault.
__________________
WildStar
Mister Fandango is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 12 2014, 06:42 PM   #2587
Dennis
Commodore
 
Dennis's Avatar
 
Location: Leading a charmed life
Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

His previous experience had been notable for its lack of deadly combat with hordes of enemies or collapsing cityscapes. He did manage to prevail in a fire evacuation.

Give it up; you're not making any point with the nitpicking.

Mister Fandango wrote: View Post
The writers fucked Superman up. It wasn't the character's fault.
There is no character to be at "fault." It's a fantasy; he doesn't exist as an entity to whom blame can be assigned. Superman exists only through the imaginations of the writers and the actor.
__________________
"One day it begins to be borne in on the writer...that he is living in Europe as an American. If he were living there as a European, he would be living on a different and far less attractive continent." - James Baldwin

Dennis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 12 2014, 06:44 PM   #2588
Savage Dragon
TheSeeker
 
Savage Dragon's Avatar
 
Location: New York, NY
Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

So what you are complaining about is the fact that someone who was raised as a human has a human reaction to the situations he's put it in. Got it.
Savage Dragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 12 2014, 06:54 PM   #2589
Mister Fandango
Fleet Captain
 
Mister Fandango's Avatar
 
Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Dennis wrote: View Post
There is no character to be at "fault." It's a fantasy; he doesn't exist as an entity to whom blame can be assigned. Superman exists only through the imaginations of the writers and the actor.
Wow, really? Thanks for that astonishing insight. It's almost like that's exactly what I fucking said.
__________________
WildStar
Mister Fandango is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 12 2014, 07:15 PM   #2590
Professor Zoom
Vice Admiral
 
Professor Zoom's Avatar
 
Location: Idealistic
Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

AllStarEntprise wrote: View Post

What "How It Should Have Ended" forgets is that Jor-El only came up with the phantom drive collision solution AFTER he plugged in to the ship. Without that act, it would be like Superman coming up with a solution that does not follow anything we saw previously. Also at the time Superman had no reason to mistrust Zod or his intentions. It was only after Zod used the dream machine on Supes did Clark learn of his sinister plan.
Because he didn't talk to the guy that KNEW Zod. Which seems kind of silly, right? Why didn't he talk to Jor-El?


It was a creative choice to have Superman fight the world engine and for Metropolis to be pancaked by the gravity beam. What is the alternative to that?
He could've taken on the one in Metropolis... tried to save lives while fighting Zod, etc.

I think for me the problem with the third act was that it just went SO far, that it became relentless grim. And not seeing Superman TRY to save people just... it felt like a video game of punch, punch, punch, building fall, thousands murdered and then... "Hey everybody, look at me, I'm a reporter!"

I think, in the end, if there was an emotional recognition by the movie of the thousands that were killed... Supes had more tears for Zod than the thousands that died... I needed something more than that glib moment with the satellite or whatever it was at the end with the General.


Dennis wrote: View Post
Professor Zoom wrote: View Post
But, they could've found creative choices to do something else....
Yes, and that would have been rote and facile.
1. You don't know that.
2. If we was rote and facile, then they weren't doing their jobs.


Let's have yet another Superman story without human consequences, because Superman can fix anything.
I'm not suggesting a story without human consequences. The How It Should've Ended cartoon, of course, does. But, it's also meant to be funny. I brought it up because i'm tired of hearing, "there's no other way!" Um. It's a fictional construct. Of course there are other ways. This was a choice.


Hey, he can spin the world backward and un-destroy Metropolis!
Sure. That's a bad idea, but, yeah. That's a way. I would say it's been done, it doesn't seem to fit his powers, but, that's one way. Are there others?

I know you're a writer, are you saying there are absolutely no other creative solutions that still has human consequences yet addresses many of the concerns people have?

Now, I know you like the end of the movie, you are satisfied, but, what if, the studio comes to you and says, we want a rewrite of the third act. We like some of it, but, we want Superman to feel more heroic. What would you do, as a writer hired to do a job?
__________________
Batman does not eat nachos.
Professor Zoom is online now   Reply With Quote
Old June 12 2014, 08:05 PM   #2591
Dennis
Commodore
 
Dennis's Avatar
 
Location: Leading a charmed life
Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Professor Zoom wrote: View Post
2. If it was rote and facile, then they weren't doing their jobs.
That's an assertion up there with the pitching coach's instruction to "throw strikes and don't give 'em anything good to hit."

They did their jobs by making a really different choice. It worked.

Since I appreciated the movie as it was I haven't given any thought to what I'd have done differently.

Now that I think about it, I just about never look at someone else's work and say "this is how I would have done it."
__________________
"One day it begins to be borne in on the writer...that he is living in Europe as an American. If he were living there as a European, he would be living on a different and far less attractive continent." - James Baldwin

Dennis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 12 2014, 08:05 PM   #2592
Garak
Mr Garak. Today My Name is Mr Garak
 
Garak's Avatar
 
Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Mister Fandango wrote: View Post
Dennis wrote: View Post
There is no character to be at "fault." It's a fantasy; he doesn't exist as an entity to whom blame can be assigned. Superman exists only through the imaginations of the writers and the actor.
Wow, really? Thanks for that astonishing insight. It's almost like that's exactly what I fucking said.
Not really, no.
__________________
'Just be yourself' is good advice to probably 5% of people.
Garak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 12 2014, 08:13 PM   #2593
Dennis
Commodore
 
Dennis's Avatar
 
Location: Leading a charmed life
Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Garak wrote: View Post
Mister Fandango wrote: View Post
Dennis wrote: View Post
There is no character to be at "fault." It's a fantasy; he doesn't exist as an entity to whom blame can be assigned. Superman exists only through the imaginations of the writers and the actor.
Wow, really? Thanks for that astonishing insight. It's almost like that's exactly what I fucking said.
Not really, no.
Not even close.
__________________
"One day it begins to be borne in on the writer...that he is living in Europe as an American. If he were living there as a European, he would be living on a different and far less attractive continent." - James Baldwin

Dennis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 12 2014, 08:27 PM   #2594
DEWLine
Fleet Captain
 
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Send a message via AIM to DEWLine Send a message via Yahoo to DEWLine
Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

AllStarEntprise wrote: View Post
They also took the fight in to outer space, ya know.
Thank you for being among those who remember noticing that particular detail. Deeply appreciated!

And we all remember how Metropolis got wrongly and intentionally tortured further for Clark's pains in attempting that, right?
__________________
Yours,

Dwight Williams
Illustrator/Writer
DEWLine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 12 2014, 08:27 PM   #2595
Mister Fandango
Fleet Captain
 
Mister Fandango's Avatar
 
Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Garak wrote: View Post
Mister Fandango wrote: View Post
Dennis wrote: View Post
There is no character to be at "fault." It's a fantasy; he doesn't exist as an entity to whom blame can be assigned. Superman exists only through the imaginations of the writers and the actor.
Wow, really? Thanks for that astonishing insight. It's almost like that's exactly what I fucking said.
Not really, no.
Considering I'm the one who wrote it, and I know exactly what I said and what I meant, yes. Yes it really was.

Mister Fandango wrote:
And, again, it's the writing people are complaining about. The writers created the situations. The writers decided he was going to kill Zod. The writers fucked Superman up.
Try reading everything except the last sentence which I excluded above, since, apparently, that's fucking throwing you two.

Because, yes, that's clearly saying that it's the character's fault and not the writer's.



You're the ones trying to rationalize it from the character's point of view, as if he had no option but to do what he did. Not me. I'm blaming the god damned writers, because the character has nothing to do with it.
__________________
WildStar
Mister Fandango is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
batman, superman

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:36 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.