RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 138,147
Posts: 5,343,576
Members: 24,592
Currently online: 518
Newest member: LaVelle

TrekToday headlines

New Funko Trek Figure
By: T'Bonz on Jul 21

Saldana As A Role Model
By: T'Bonz on Jul 21

San Diego Comic-Con Trek Fan Guide
By: T'Bonz on Jul 21

Cumberbatch As Turing
By: T'Bonz on Jul 21

Retro Review: In the Pale Moonlight
By: Michelle on Jul 19

Trek Beach Towel
By: T'Bonz on Jul 18

Two New Starships Collection Releases
By: T'Bonz on Jul 17

Giacchino Tour Arrives In North America
By: T'Bonz on Jul 17

IDW Publishing October Star Trek Comics
By: T'Bonz on Jul 16

Cho As Romantic Lead
By: T'Bonz on Jul 16


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy

Science Fiction & Fantasy Farscape, Babylon 5, Star Wars, Firefly, vampires, genre books and film.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 21 2014, 06:23 PM   #1981
Aldo
Admiral
 
Aldo's Avatar
 
Location: Somewhere Out there beneath the pale moonlight.
Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

So humor me on this question as I've only been skimming the thread recently and may have missed a detail.

But is the latest news saying that they're going to use Nolan's trilogy to give Batman a backstory in the same way that Singer used the first two Reeve films?
__________________
Don't believe everything I say.
Aldo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 21 2014, 06:28 PM   #1982
Out Of My Vulcan Mind
Vice Admiral
 
Out Of My Vulcan Mind's Avatar
 
Location: Wherever you go, there you are.
Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Mark Hughes, a film blogger for Forbes with good connections to the Batman vs. Superman production, has said there's no truth to the rumors of any connection to the Nolan films.
__________________
"I'll see you in another life, brother."
Out Of My Vulcan Mind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 21 2014, 08:45 PM   #1983
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Aldo wrote: View Post
But is the latest news saying that they're going to use Nolan's trilogy to give Batman a backstory in the same way that Singer used the first two Reeve films?
No, we were saying it probably wouldn't be like that, but more like how The Incredible Hulk was deliberately vague about whether it was connected to Ang Lee's Hulk even though it clearly wasn't if you looked closely.

And of course OOMVM's post has now confirmed that there's no connection at all.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 21 2014, 08:48 PM   #1984
Samurai8472
Vice Admiral
 
Samurai8472's Avatar
 
Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

I was thinking the other day it would be nice to bring back Nolan's Two-Face since he was underused in Nolan's trilogy

Same actor and same makeup but slightly different circumstances.
__________________
"Inception" is a layer cake.
Samurai8472 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 21 2014, 09:26 PM   #1985
davejames
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Sac, Ca
Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

I have a feeling the only carryover from the Nolan films will be the more grounded and realistic tone-- if only because that's the same tone they already established with MOS.

As much as I was kind of looking forward to a more operatic, BTAS-style Batman, I'm just not sure that would really meld well with what we've already seen.
davejames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 22 2014, 12:04 AM   #1986
The Old Mixer
Vice Admiral
 
The Old Mixer's Avatar
 
Location: Connecticut
Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

I'm a fan of the book and film versions of Bond, but I took the "continuity" of the pre-Craig films the same way that you have to take long-running comic book continuity. Characters staying young after decades, backstory rooted in stories that were published and originally took place in the 1960s, a myriad of writers and artists imposing their own styles on the characters...not at all dissimilar from the decades of tone and actor shifts in the classic Bond films.

Captaindemotion wrote: View Post
An example I often like to use is the (pre-Daniel Craig) James Bond movies. You would get in a Moore, Brosnan or Dalton film a reference to an older film - most often Tracy (from OHMSS), who was referred to in For Your Eyes Only and Licence to Kill.
Don't forget The Spy Who Loved Me.
__________________
50 years ago on July 6: A Hard Day's Night premieres in London.
The Old Mixer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 22 2014, 12:28 AM   #1987
theenglish
Rear Admiral
 
theenglish's Avatar
 
Location: Suriname
Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
I'm a fan of the book and film versions of Bond, but I took the "continuity" of the pre-Craig films the same way that you have to take long-running comic book continuity. Characters staying young after decades, backstory rooted in stories that were published and originally took place in the 1960s, a myriad of writers and artists imposing their own styles on the characters...not at all dissimilar from the decades of tone and actor shifts in the classic Bond films.
That's the way the films were always meant to be taken. Especially after they stopped using titles by Ian Fleming.
theenglish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 22 2014, 12:28 AM   #1988
Lance
Fleet Captain
 
Lance's Avatar
 
Location: The Enterprise's Restroom
Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

davejames wrote: View Post
theenglish wrote: View Post
Superman Returns was a follow up to the Donner films. It was stated explicitly.
A followup, yes. But Singer and the writers were always careful to state that the events of the Donner movies formed more of a "vague history" to SR than things that literally happened.

Which was kind of a no brainer, really, given the much younger age of the actors, and, oh yeah, the fact the world of SR looked radically different from that of the previous films.
See, this is part of the reason that Superman Returns failed. There was market confusion as to whether it was a new thing, or a sequel to the Reeve films. Audiences didn't get it, they just didn't get that SR was using the Reeve films as a general 'tone' for proceedings while still setting forth on their own thing. I truely believe this was probably the original intention of the film-makers, but it got lost somewhere during production, when somebody said "Wouldn't it be cool if we used footage of Marlon Brando as Jor-El?", or "Why don't we use an arrangement of John Williams' theme music for the credits? And do the same zoom effect on the titles?".

It didn't help that publicity materials muddied the waters even further by stating things like how it supposedly was set after Superman II and discarded III and IV, when in reality it just isn't consistent enough with the first two movies for that to be the case. Is Lois Lane really supposed to be the same one played by Margot Kidder? Is Kevin Spacey's bonkers Lex Luthor really supposed to be the same as Hackman's cool, calculating original? For as many nods to the Donner films as we get, there's about twenty things that they get wrong.

The fact that the perception still exists that SR is a follow-up to the Reeve films, even now nearly ten whole years after its release, is testament to what was a complete screw up in publicity terms.
Lance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 22 2014, 12:44 AM   #1989
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Lance wrote: View Post
The fact that the perception still exists that SR is a follow-up to the Reeve films, even now nearly ten whole years after its release, is testament to what was a complete screw up in publicity terms.
But the point is that it's not as simple as "exactly consistent" or "totally separate." It's fiction, not reality, and thus it can easily be between those extremes. Many, many, many works of fiction are loosely consistent with earlier works while still taking liberties with them and reinterpreting their details. Even a supposedly consistent canon is full of reinterpretations -- like Spock going from Vulcanian to Vulcan and from having a human "ancestor" to having a human mother, or like Superman going from just jumping really far to actually flying. And a lot of sequels or revivals do take liberties with the source; modern Doctor Who, for example, has contradicted or reinvented a lot from the original series (which had already contradicted and reinvented itself many times over nearly three decades), codifying the conceit of the Time War changing history as its excuse. The Stargate SG-1 TV series deliberately reworked or ignored a number of details from the movie while assuming that the events of the movie nonetheless happened in the show's universe -- and virtually every other TV spinoff of a movie that's ever been made has done much the same thing (e.g. the Starman TV series acknowledged the events of the movie as real but retconned them to have happened 10-12 years earlier).

So just because it wasn't absolutely consistent, that doesn't mean it wasn't intended to be a followup. On the contrary, it's rare for a revival of an old continuity not to reinterpret its details in some ways.

After all, these are stories, not documentaries. And any ongoing story is a work in progress. The creative process fundamentally incorporates revision -- that's how we turn our rough ideas into more refined ideas, correct our mistakes, etc. So to a writer or artist, there is no inconsistency between wanting to continue a story and wanting to change things about it. The changes are part of the process of refining the creation, polishing it, adapting it to a new medium or new audience.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 22 2014, 01:12 AM   #1990
Captaindemotion
Vice Admiral
 
Captaindemotion's Avatar
 
Location: Ireland
Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
I'm a fan of the book and film versions of Bond, but I took the "continuity" of the pre-Craig films the same way that you have to take long-running comic book continuity. Characters staying young after decades, backstory rooted in stories that were published and originally took place in the 1960s, a myriad of writers and artists imposing their own styles on the characters...not at all dissimilar from the decades of tone and actor shifts in the classic Bond films.

Captaindemotion wrote: View Post
An example I often like to use is the (pre-Daniel Craig) James Bond movies. You would get in a Moore, Brosnan or Dalton film a reference to an older film - most often Tracy (from OHMSS), who was referred to in For Your Eyes Only and Licence to Kill.
Don't forget The Spy Who Loved Me.
What was the TSWLM reference? Was the scene where Bond throws Blofeld (who is never named but it's clear who he's meant to be?) down a chimney not from FYEO? Or have I forgotten another reference?
__________________
Hodor!!!!!!!
Captaindemotion is online now   Reply With Quote
Old March 22 2014, 01:18 AM   #1991
Out Of My Vulcan Mind
Vice Admiral
 
Out Of My Vulcan Mind's Avatar
 
Location: Wherever you go, there you are.
Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Captaindemotion wrote: View Post
What was the TSWLM reference? Was the scene where Bond throws Blofeld (who is never named but it's clear who he's meant to be?) down a chimney not from FYEO? Or have I forgotten another reference?
From Wiki:

In The Spy Who Loved Me, when Bond meets Anya Amasova in the Mujaba Club bar, in Cairo, Egypt, she recites a few facts about his life to prove that she had researched him. She mentions facts about his career and his relationships, noting that he had "...many lady friends, but married only once. Wife killed..." at which point Bond immediately cut her off, snapping "You've made your point." Anya comments that he's surprisingly sensitive, to which Bond responds, "About certain things."
__________________
"I'll see you in another life, brother."
Out Of My Vulcan Mind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 22 2014, 01:18 AM   #1992
Lance
Fleet Captain
 
Lance's Avatar
 
Location: The Enterprise's Restroom
Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Christopher wrote: View Post
Lance wrote: View Post
The fact that the perception still exists that SR is a follow-up to the Reeve films, even now nearly ten whole years after its release, is testament to what was a complete screw up in publicity terms.
But the point is that it's not as simple as "exactly consistent" or "totally separate." It's fiction, not reality, and thus it can easily be between those extremes. Many, many, many works of fiction are loosely consistent with earlier works while still taking liberties with them and reinterpreting their details. Even a supposedly consistent canon is full of reinterpretations -- like Spock going from Vulcanian to Vulcan and from having a human "ancestor" to having a human mother, or like Superman going from just jumping really far to actually flying. And a lot of sequels or revivals do take liberties with the source; modern Doctor Who, for example, has contradicted or reinvented a lot from the original series (which had already contradicted and reinvented itself many times over nearly three decades), codifying the conceit of the Time War changing history as its excuse. The Stargate SG-1 TV series deliberately reworked or ignored a number of details from the movie while assuming that the events of the movie nonetheless happened in the show's universe -- and virtually every other TV spinoff of a movie that's ever been made has done much the same thing (e.g. the Starman TV series acknowledged the events of the movie as real but retconned them to have happened 10-12 years earlier).

So just because it wasn't absolutely consistent, that doesn't mean it wasn't intended to be a followup. On the contrary, it's rare for a revival of an old continuity not to reinterpret its details in some ways.

After all, these are stories, not documentaries. And any ongoing story is a work in progress. The creative process fundamentally incorporates revision -- that's how we turn our rough ideas into more refined ideas, correct our mistakes, etc. So to a writer or artist, there is no inconsistency between wanting to continue a story and wanting to change things about it. The changes are part of the process of refining the creation, polishing it, adapting it to a new medium or new audience.
Oh, I don't dispute that. It only becomes a problem when the publicity machine seems to be confused as to whether it's a sequel, a remake, or "something else entirely" (in this case SR is "something else entirely"). That the audience at large failed to take to Superman Returns has been largely attributed to confusion over what it was supposed to be. Some people just assumed it was 'Superman 5' (it isn't), something which IMO is compounded by it being bundled with the Reeve movies in boxsets and the like. When it really shouldn't be.
Lance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 22 2014, 01:24 AM   #1993
The Old Mixer
Vice Admiral
 
The Old Mixer's Avatar
 
Location: Connecticut
Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

When Bond and Future Beatle Wife are introducing themselves at the bar by quoting from each other's dossiers. Quoted imperfectly from memory:

"Many lady friends, but married only once. Wife killed in..."
"Thank you, you've made your point."
"You're sensitive."
"About some things, yes."

EDIT: Curses, beaten to the punch!
__________________
50 years ago on July 6: A Hard Day's Night premieres in London.
The Old Mixer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 22 2014, 01:25 AM   #1994
Set Harth
Rear Admiral
 
Set Harth's Avatar
 
Location: Gallifrey Falls
Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

theenglish wrote: View Post
My Trek comment refers to the fact that Abrams pretends its the same universe but changes all the "rules" of the Trek verse around so it is nothing like the original universe.
What "rules" did he change that aren't explained by the fact that they are in an alternate timeline?
__________________
"In the future... do I make it?"
"No."
Set Harth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 22 2014, 02:35 AM   #1995
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Lance wrote: View Post
That the audience at large failed to take to Superman Returns has been largely attributed to confusion over what it was supposed to be. Some people just assumed it was 'Superman 5' (it isn't), something which IMO is compounded by it being bundled with the Reeve movies in boxsets and the like. When it really shouldn't be.
And that assumption on your part is what I disagree with. It's clearly meant to be an approximate continuation of the first two Reeve films, with a few elements reworked and modernized in the same way that modern Marvel comics modernize events from '60s comics while still pretending to be continuations of them. I mean, really, the similarities enormously outweigh the differences -- the Williams theme, the crystalline Kryptonian technology, the backstory of Superman and Lois having been lovers, Luthor's obsession with real estate and preference in female associates, Superman's quote of his own line about flying being the safest way to travel, the use of Marlon Brando as Jor-El... I mean, really, that is obviously a hell of a lot more than just an homage. It's meant as a sequel, but like many, many sequels and revivals, it updates and reworks elements of its source.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
batman, superman

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:24 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.