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Old July 21 2013, 05:01 PM   #136
Out Of My Vulcan Mind
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Captaindemotion wrote: View Post
But is it any more obscure than The Dark Knight was in 2008 or Man of Steel was? Especially when the S and the Bat are in the logo and posters?
It's not more obscure, but it doesn't have a modern ring to it.
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Old July 21 2013, 05:14 PM   #137
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

^ Yeah but these are the heroes everyone has heard of. I think this will have as much of a headstart with the public as Avengers, though I'm not saying it will definitely be as successful
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Old July 21 2013, 05:22 PM   #138
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

^^I think it's much more obscure...the general public knows who "The Man of Steel" is, and they might have heard of "The Dark Knight", but they won't be familiar with the title "World's Finest", and unlike the previous two examples, it's very generic-sounding out of context.

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
"Frankenstein Meets the Wolfman" wasn't titled "Frankenstein Vs. Wolfman," but they still ended up fighting in the end, because that's what audiences want to see.
I'm not denying for a second that they should start out at odds with each other, or that they'll probably fight...but you're making my basic point for me--You can have them fight without putting the very negative "vs." in the title.

Christopher wrote: View Post
I liked the way Byrne did it in The Man of Steel #3. Batman knew he didn't have a chance against Superman physically, so he used a bomb threat to keep Superman from touching him, and thus their tension was strictly on a personal and moral level rather than being your typical superhero slugfest.
Hear, hear!

Showdown wrote: View Post
Maybe they should have Green Lantern make a cameo in the Flash movie. Okay, nevermind.
At this point, they'll count their blessings if they can get away with quietly slipping GL in the JL movie....

Regarding the subject of Kryptonite...I think it will pop up in this film. Used right, it could be an equalizer for Superman and Batman...and at the end they could recreate that classic bit where Superman entrusts Batman with it, a great way of demonstrating the mutual respect and trust that they've earned in spite of the cheesy title. In this version of things, I wouldn't be surprised if Kryptonite were synthetically developed on Earth as a substance to recreate the effects that the Kryptonian atmosphere had on Superman in MoS...a project that could be initiated by the government as a means of controlling Superman, which they could contract out to a research tycoon whose initials are "LL".....
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Old July 21 2013, 05:25 PM   #139
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Captaindemotion wrote: View Post
But is it any more obscure than The Dark Knight was in 2008 or Man of Steel was? Especially when the S and the Bat are in the logo and posters?
I think so. THE DARK KNIGHT and MAN OF STEEL are both better known phrases, long associated with the characters, and actual descriptions of the protagonists.

WORLD'S FINEST is a bit of publishing history that doesn't actually describe the characters except in terms of a vague superlative.
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Old July 21 2013, 05:25 PM   #140
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

There are all sorts of interpersonal conflicts you can set up - one is an immigrant working stiff and the other is an blueblood and so on.
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Old July 21 2013, 05:35 PM   #141
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
WORLD'S FINEST is the perfect title--if you're a lifelong comic book fan with a long memory and a working knowledge of DC history. But I'm not sure the phrase screams "Batman Meets Superman" to the average moviegoer.

Certainly, it's more esoteric than, say, MAN OF STEEL or THE DARK KNIGHT.
The logo should be sufficient to make it clear, no?
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Old July 21 2013, 05:41 PM   #142
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
I wouldn't be surprised if Kryptonite were synthetically developed on Earth as a substance to recreate the effects that the Kryptonian atmosphere had on Superman in MoS...a project that could be initiated by the government as a means of controlling Superman, which they could contract out to a research tycoon whose initials are "LL".....
Problem with that is that the only 2 people around that know about the kryptonian atmosphere effect is Lois and Superman. I doubt they would mention it to anyone.
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Old July 21 2013, 05:52 PM   #143
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

sojourner wrote: View Post
I doubt they would mention it to anyone.
You can introduce a new villain who also knows, like Brainiac.
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Old July 21 2013, 05:58 PM   #144
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Showdown wrote: View Post
Is that a real period image? I didn't know they did high fives back then.


Warped9 wrote: View Post
In the end my biggest gripe is with the final action scene: totally redundant and overdone. But the rest of it I can live with.
The overkill in the climax was its biggest problem by far. By the time the Superman-Zod fight started and buidings began collapsing again, I was this close to yelling "Seriously?" at the screen, and my only reaction was "Enough already, just make it stop!" But the film certainly has other massive problems on the level of characterization and plot structure.


While they might indeed reboot Batman for this---and thereby open the door for further solo Batman features---I certainly wouldn't mind seeing Christian Bale come back for this one more story (assuming they decide to keep it all the same continuity).
Personally I'm eager for a new Batman. I always found Bale to be one of the weaker links in the Nolan movies. And I'll be happy if I never have to hear that stupid Bat-growl again.


Saying that it could be loosely based on Frank Miller's work might only be a way of conveying the general story idea they're considering without adapting the exact original story point-for-point.
That's a given, of course, but my point is that even using TDKR as a conceptual or stylistic inspiration or a model for how to approach the characters is problematical, because it's not supposed to represent the normal personalities or interactions of the characters in their prime, but is an extreme alternative take on them both, a speculation about what they both could evolve into in a far darker, dystopian future. TDKR was meant to be a radical, subversive, satirical alternate take on the characters. Using it as a conceptual or stylistic template for their default portrayal is completely missing the point. And the fact that a generation of comics authors in the '90s and '00s have done exactly that doesn't make it any less a mistake.


Greg Cox wrote: View Post
WORLD'S FINEST is the perfect title--if you're a lifelong comic book fan with a long memory and a working knowledge of DC history. But I'm not sure the phrase screams "Batman Meets Superman" to the average moviegoer.

Certainly, it's more esoteric than, say, MAN OF STEEL or THE DARK KNIGHT.
But on the other hand, titles like The Winter Soldier or Age of Ultron are much the same, significant to fans but obscure to the masses. That hasn't stopped Marvel from using them.

And of course, "World's Finest" was the title used for the 3-part Batman-Superman crossover in The New Batman/Superman Adventures.


The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
In this version of things, I wouldn't be surprised if Kryptonite were synthetically developed on Earth as a substance to recreate the effects that the Kryptonian atmosphere had on Superman in MoS...a project that could be initiated by the government as a means of controlling Superman, which they could contract out to a research tycoon whose initials are "LL".....
That's quite a clever idea.
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Old July 21 2013, 06:04 PM   #145
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Christopher wrote: View Post
But on the other hand, titles like The Winter Soldier or Age of Ultron are much the same, significant to fans but obscure to the masses. That hasn't stopped Marvel from using them.
They're using them as subtitles, which is very different from using them as standalone titles. You could use the title of Superman & Batman: World's Finest, but I don't think it would fit the mood and tone they'll be going for.
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Old July 21 2013, 06:07 PM   #146
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

From the studios POV this might not be a bad movie in terms of $$$ as despite Man of Steel large total, its drop off week by week has been pretty steep for example it unlikely it will hit $300 million (US Box Office) despite the large opening. A Batman/Superman movie will be huge and will help any standalone MoS sequel.

This could be huge.
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Old July 21 2013, 06:10 PM   #147
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

^ Those were my thoughts. I suspect if MOS had done the sort of money WB's Jeff Robinov (since departed the studio) expected it to do, a straight MOS would have been announced.
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Old July 21 2013, 06:19 PM   #148
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

So they're doing this to boost MOS? They don't think this Superman franchise can carry a sequel with Superman alone being the main protagonist?
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Old July 21 2013, 06:21 PM   #149
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

sojourner wrote: View Post
Problem with that is that the only 2 people around that know about the kryptonian atmosphere effect is Lois and Superman. I doubt they would mention it to anyone.
I'm sure they could put the pieces together, what with having lots of Kryptonian wreckage to examine, the difficulties the Kryptonians were having with our atmosphere, and Zod's plan to convert our environment to be more like Krypton's....plus Lois may have let the cat out of the bag between scenes after her experience on the ship. I remember her mentioning that Superman might be weaker around the World Engine, and that may have been in front of others....

Christopher wrote: View Post
That's quite a clever idea.
Coming from a professional author, I'm flattered. It would also avoid the coincidence of Kryptonian fragments winding up on Earth, considering that in MoS, Kal-El's ship went into warp before the planet exploded.
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Old July 21 2013, 06:30 PM   #150
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Re: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Out Of My Vulcan Mind wrote: View Post
Press release says Cavill, Adams, Lane and Fishburne are confirmed to return and that a new Batman will be cast. Here's the logo they showed at Comic-Con.

According to io9 Harry Lennix joined Snyder onstage for the annoucement and read the following dialogue:

I want you to remember, Clark… in all the years to come… in your most private moments… I want you to remember… my hand… at your throat… I want… you to remember… the one man who beat you.
It's from The Dark Knight Returns. Snyder said the movie won't be an adaptation of it, but it'll be inspired by it.
Out Of My Vulcan Mind wrote: View Post
Some quotes from David Goyer:

"We don't know what we're going to call it yet — 'Superman vs. Batman,' 'Batman vs. Superman,' — but those two guys on screen, that's happening."

"To a certain extent, Superman, cinematically, hadn't been reinvented since the Donner films. We will be dealing with it in the coming film. He's not fully formed in [Man of Steel]. He will have to deal with the repercussions in the next film."
Here's my premature theory:

In the aftermath of the Kryptonian attack on Earth, the US government contracts with LexCorp to rebuild Metropolis and with the newly solvent again (after Wayne recovered his fortune and the company got a bailout) Wayne Enterprises to develop countermeasures to fight any potential future Kryptonian threats. The government also does not fully trust Superman yet and is not sure whether he'll interfere with US government foreign policy, so secretly the project is also to develop countermeasures against him.

Wayne Enterprises has access to scans of Superman and Zod fighting in Metropolis and near their destroyed satellite, military scans of Clark's escape pod, Zod's Kryptonian armor which he shed in Metropolis, and the debris from the destroyed World Engine to analyze. They reverse engineer the armor and are able to access a Kryptonian computer from the world engine.

The Wayne Enterprises project is overseen by CEO Bruce Wayne, back from overseas and retired from crimefighting, leaving that to his protege John "Robin" Blake, the new Batman (Wayne is recast, and Blake doesn't even have to show up or can just be a brief cameo). Wayne has essentially taken over the trainer/mentor/armorer roles of Ducard, Alfred, and Fox from the DK trilogy with the rookie Batman Blake. Gotham is also undergoing its own recovery program post-Bane, allowing Wayne to fix the city's ills through charitable, social, and infrastructure/redevelopment projects like his father did. Bruce is content in this new role and is able to have a meaningful relationship with Selina.

Clark, through researching the Wayne Enterprises project as a journalist, learns of the nature of the secret program and its development of countermeasures against Kryptonians. Seeing as all the other Kryptonians are seemingly locked away in The Phantom Zone, Clark sees this as a clear threat to himself from the still somewhat distrustful US government and sees the potential for a new global arms race to develop using highly volatile Kryptonian technology that could destroy mankind. He vows to destroy the lab and all its data.

Wayne has anticipated this possibility though, and the lab utilizes Kryptonian materials in its construction, rendering Superman weakened when he lands there much as Kryptonite would. While Superman struggles to exit the lab, Bruce uses the time to prepare () by donning the new reverse engineered Kryptonian/Applied Sciences hybrid exo-skeleton BatSuit he was developing. This suit has sensors similar to Superman's senses, flight capability, super strength and speed, enhanced armor, anti-Kryptonian weapons, and can survive in most environments, including space. It's an improvement on the Kryptonian armor which Zod and Co. were able to give Superman a very hard time dealing with.

Superman and Bruce/Batman fight to a draw after an epic battle that leaves most of the lab destroyed anyway, with the exception of the suit. Unbeknownst to Clark and Bruce, their fight has lowered containment protocols around the damaged central computer of the world engine, allowing the Kryptonian AI Brainiac to escape into Wayne Enterprises computers and eventually into the wild. When Clark and Bruce learn of this, they decide to set aside their differences and team up to stop Brainiac before it can gain control of the US military's drones, ships, nuclear stockpile, and other automated systems and threaten the world. They have another epic showdown against Brainiac's armies of robots and vessels, and eventually emerge victorious together.

Clark decides he can trust Bruce with his secret identity and with the ability to kill him and other Kryptonians with Kryptonite should something go wrong with him. Bruce shares his identity with Clark as well, and decides that he's not ready to give up the mantle of the Bat just yet, vowing to fight to change/save the world from the bigger threats it faces while letting Blake deal with saving Gotham. As far as the people know, though, both Batmen are one and the same person. Clark and Bruce also decide that they need to form a team to counter threats to the Earth, thus leading to the Justice League.

In the coda, Bruce tells the US government that he will no longer be developing the Anti-Kryptonian weapons that he promised them, seeing the project as a dead end with no applications. The US government is not pleased, and decides to take what materials and data they can salvage from the Wayne Enterprises lab and bring it to the next interested party, LexCorp. As the films ends, we see greedy corporate CEO Lex Luthor looking over the tech and smiling as he contemplates what he can do with all of this power. In the background, we see campaign mockups promoting Lex Luthor for President, which is his next step after becoming the billionaire hero who spent a fortune rebuilding Metropolis.
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