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Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old July 31 2013, 09:18 PM   #31
R. Star
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Re: Rewatching "Emissary"...

Well Sisko's anger towards Picard is very understandable. Picard's face was the one on the viewscreen the day he and Jake lost everything. That face was mercilessly telling them it was all futile and any concept of sacrifice was meaningless. And he pretty much was right, that fleet at Wolf 359 didn't accomplish a thing other than slowing the Cube down long enough for the Enterprise to save the day.

Years later that same face is ordering him, a single dad, to take his son to be rasied in a Cardassian shithole in the ass end of space, living with a bunch of religious yokel natives. When he presumes to point this fact out, that same face that took away his wife then presumed to lecture him about duty, when he had already given his dearest blood for it at Wolf 359.

It's not fair at all, but it's very human. That's really what Emissary was about. Sisko moving on from that day. Even the Prophets saw that from the beginning.
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Old August 1 2013, 04:47 AM   #32
Anwar
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Re: Rewatching "Emissary"...

Exactly, it's about a guy who basically fell and then learned (with some assistance) to pick himself up again. It's a very Trek story, IMO.
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Old August 1 2013, 10:18 AM   #33
JarodRussell
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Re: Rewatching "Emissary"...

That "Why do you exist here?" scene was pretty moving.
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Old August 1 2013, 05:14 PM   #34
BillJ
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Re: Rewatching "Emissary"...

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
That "Why do you exist here?" scene was pretty moving.
As a die-hard TOS fan, I believe those scenes are some of the best in all of Star Trek.
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Old August 7 2013, 02:18 PM   #35
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Re: Rewatching "Emissary"...

Wolf 359 was Starlfleet's fault anyhow. they let one Federation ship face a near invincible Borg cube lol... Picard's capture was thus inevitable, since he could only do a certain amount to prevent capture. And the Borg evidently had that plan all along (that Borg Queen is very cunning lol..) so Starfleet played right into it. Somebody told me once that Picard could have had more officers on the bridge to prevent capture. lol.. I don't get how that would have helped. Yes, more Borg would have been killed, but then they'll send more drones, these drones will adapt to the phasers, and physically overpower all officers present. Only Data would not be overpowered, for obvious reasons. Even placing a forcefield around Deck 1 is no use against the Borg. Against the Romulans or the Dominion, maybe, but the Borg is a higher level all round lol..

So I don't believe Sisko's treatment of Picard was fair, but I agree it was understandable.
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Old August 7 2013, 02:20 PM   #36
picsiskvinechef
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Re: Rewatching "Emissary"...

R. Star wrote: View Post
Well Sisko's anger towards Picard is very understandable. Picard's face was the one on the viewscreen the day he and Jake lost everything. That face was mercilessly telling them it was all futile and any concept of sacrifice was meaningless. And he pretty much was right, that fleet at Wolf 359 didn't accomplish a thing other than slowing the Cube down long enough for the Enterprise to save the day.

Years later that same face is ordering him, a single dad, to take his son to be rasied in a Cardassian shithole in the ass end of space, living with a bunch of religious yokel natives. When he presumes to point this fact out, that same face that took away his wife then presumed to lecture him about duty, when he had already given his dearest blood for it at Wolf 359.

It's not fair at all, but it's very human. That's really what Emissary was about. Sisko moving on from that day. Even the Prophets saw that from the beginning.
Picard outranked Sisko, didn't he? And didn't Picard face "duty" when being ordered to track a fake Cardassian metagenic weapon? Or "duty" when being ordered to engage the Borg Cube in the first place?

lol.. I like how you believe your judgment/opinion is so binding here. You only one man, not a God
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Old August 7 2013, 02:28 PM   #37
picsiskvinechef
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Re: Rewatching "Emissary"...

dub wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Picard earned that posh lounge and tea set with a lot of sweat and blood.
Jennifer's blood, from Sisko's POV.

It's a POV not based on the reality of Picard's lack of control over his person, but a very deep, skewed, emotionally damaged POV focused on the loss of his wife which had obviously consumed him ever since.
Yes, and Picard assumed command of the Enterprise after Wolf 359.

Erm.. you realise Picard is older and had outranked Sisko long before Sisko himself became a Captain? his "posh lounge" came from hard work. As in, well you know, years as CO of the Stargazer, in which Sisko was a teenager in Joe's kitchen or was at the Academy.

Do you actually have a point, or do actually watch the episodes?
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Old August 7 2013, 02:31 PM   #38
picsiskvinechef
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Re: Rewatching "Emissary"...

Mysterion wrote: View Post
Maj. Kira Nerys wrote: View Post
I felt bad for Picard at the beginning, too, and it made me even dislike Sisko for a short time, but after some episodes I decided that I like him after all.

And Sisko's reaction was understandable, but so was Picard's, who can't be blamed for being assimilated.
If anything, that scene made Sisko's stock with me jump considerably.

Maybe Picard isn't at fault for what happened at Wolf 359. But, Picard still acts like a dismissive, elitist asshole in the way he deals with Sisko, lecturing him about how Starfleet officers have to accept a certain amount of sacrifice while he sits in his posh lounge playing with his tea set. If anything, Sisko acts with what must be considerable restraint on his part.
So when Picard orders Riker, is he being dismissive? Do you realise that both Sisko and Riker were of the same rank at the time?

Don't let reality bite you on the arse. Superior officers in the armed forces treat juniors as they please. Just like how Admiral Nechayev beats down Picard whenever she met him. It simply is as is.
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Old August 7 2013, 11:08 PM   #39
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Re: Rewatching "Emissary"...

BillJ wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
That "Why do you exist here?" scene was pretty moving.
As a die-hard TOS fan, I believe those scenes are some of the best in all of Star Trek.
Agreed.
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Old August 7 2013, 11:46 PM   #40
R. Star
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Re: Rewatching "Emissary"...

picsiskvinechef wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post
Well Sisko's anger towards Picard is very understandable. Picard's face was the one on the viewscreen the day he and Jake lost everything. That face was mercilessly telling them it was all futile and any concept of sacrifice was meaningless. And he pretty much was right, that fleet at Wolf 359 didn't accomplish a thing other than slowing the Cube down long enough for the Enterprise to save the day.

Years later that same face is ordering him, a single dad, to take his son to be rasied in a Cardassian shithole in the ass end of space, living with a bunch of religious yokel natives. When he presumes to point this fact out, that same face that took away his wife then presumed to lecture him about duty, when he had already given his dearest blood for it at Wolf 359.

It's not fair at all, but it's very human. That's really what Emissary was about. Sisko moving on from that day. Even the Prophets saw that from the beginning.
Picard outranked Sisko, didn't he? And didn't Picard face "duty" when being ordered to track a fake Cardassian metagenic weapon? Or "duty" when being ordered to engage the Borg Cube in the first place?

lol.. I like how you believe your judgment/opinion is so binding here. You only one man, not a God
I like how you apparently missed the whole point of the post being what Sisko would likely be thinking of the situation and then just pull some random insults out of your ass at my expense that have nothing to do with reality. You are a true gentleman and scholar, sir. Got any more pearls of wisdom?
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Old August 7 2013, 11:59 PM   #41
MacLeod
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Re: Rewatching "Emissary"...

R. Star wrote: View Post
Well Sisko's anger towards Picard is very understandable. Picard's face was the one on the viewscreen the day he and Jake lost everything. That face was mercilessly telling them it was all futile and any concept of sacrifice was meaningless. And he pretty much was right, that fleet at Wolf 359 didn't accomplish a thing other than slowing the Cube down long enough for the Enterprise to save the day.

Years later that same face is ordering him, a single dad, to take his son to be rasied in a Cardassian shithole in the ass end of space, living with a bunch of religious yokel natives. When he presumes to point this fact out, that same face that took away his wife then presumed to lecture him about duty, when he had already given his dearest blood for it at Wolf 359.

It's not fair at all, but it's very human. That's really what Emissary was about. Sisko moving on from that day. Even the Prophets saw that from the beginning.

Well strictly speaking Picard didn't order him to Bajor. That would have been done no doubt by an Admiral at Starfleet Command.

Picard as his superior officer was quite right to question Sisko. If it had been a different Captain he would no doubt have done the same as Picard.

Sure it's understanbly that Sisko might struggle to sperate Locutus from Picard.
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Old August 10 2013, 06:57 AM   #42
Roboturner913
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Re: Rewatching "Emissary"...

In the novelization there is a little bit of Picard inner dialogue about how he intends to become Jake's benefactor. I always imagined Jake's writing career got started with a little help from Picard pulling some strings with a publisher friend or something.

Don't get picsiskvinechef comments. Pretty out-of-line and unnecessarily hostile, doncha think?
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Old August 10 2013, 03:01 PM   #43
dub
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Re: Rewatching "Emissary"...

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Old August 10 2013, 03:17 PM   #44
Tosk
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Re: Rewatching "Emissary"...

Roboturner913 wrote: View Post
Don't get picsiskvinechef comments. Pretty out-of-line and unnecessarily hostile, doncha think?
Some viewers seem to prefer choosing a side in that scene, even though it's very easy to sympathize with both Picard and Sisko in my opinion.

Eh, whadda ya gonna do?
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Old August 10 2013, 03:23 PM   #45
R. Star
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Re: Rewatching "Emissary"...

It is. Apparently I'm a Picard hater just because I expressed sympathy for Sisko's point of view... even though Picard's my favorite Trek captain.
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