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Old September 11 2013, 12:45 PM   #286
Nightdiamond
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Re: The Single Worst Line of Dialogue in the entire Star Trek Franchis

Anwar wrote: View Post

I'm actually a bit more annoyed at Riker than I am at Picard in that episode. Picard at least was under the heavy pressure of finding out if they were being invaded by Romulans and didn't interact with the 20th Century guys much. Riker comes off as pretty nasty and petty to condemn them after meeting them.
That was my thought too. If Riker made his opinion later, after hearing Ralph rant and rave about power and money, then he might have had a good point.

But IIRC, that small talk he had where the only things discussed where Ralph wanting to know about his accounts, and Sonny asking about TV, were the only things at that point.

So to me, that passage strongly implies that Sonny wanting to watch TV, something future humans find backwards, is possibly one of the things that made them look somewhat hopeless according to Riker.

I think the main purpose of episodes like this was to showcase how different and further evolved future humans were compared to past humans.


TheGoodStuff wrote: View Post

I think people are reading way too far into this. However, I suspect Picard's answer would be along the lines of

"The Holodeck allows us to interact with the story, to almost BE the story. It DOES benefit if used correctly. Even Dixon Hill is solving crimes instead of watching someone else do it."

Also, in the Star Trek universe, where we aren't forced to work 9-5 all our lives, I'd say life WOULD be far more interesting.
This is a good point, the problem comes (i think) when a character may add extra commentary that might imply condemning an activity or behavior from the past.

When Phlox said his culture quit TV because they found their real lives more interesting, it could be interpreted as a dig at TV watchers, because they continue waste their time watching other people's lives or something.

Why not just say, 'we did once, but we discovered other forms of media and entertainment to occupy our time'?

Besides, I think Trek and maybe Phlox misunderstood the whole point of TV--most people watch it to escape reality for a while

Sometimes after football practice, violin practice, 10 hours of work or whatever, people want to grab a snack, throw their shoes off and watch a drama or people fighting with swords from another time period.

Last edited by Nightdiamond; September 11 2013 at 12:56 PM.
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Old September 11 2013, 02:39 PM   #287
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Re: The Single Worst Line of Dialogue in the entire Star Trek Franchis

TheGoodStuff wrote: View Post
Nightdiamond wrote: View Post

If you were to ask Picard if he watched TV he'd probably say something similar to Phlox, about finding real life more interesting than watching someone else's.

But if you were to ask him, 'but when you pretend to be Dixon Hill when you use the holodeck, how is that any different?"

Would love to see the expression....
I think people are reading way too far into this. However, I suspect Picard's answer would be along the lines of

"The Holodeck allows us to interact with the story, to almost BE the story. It DOES benefit if used correctly. Even Dixon Hill is solving crimes instead of watching someone else do it."
Indeed. I could really get into that holodeck.
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Old September 11 2013, 02:45 PM   #288
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Re: The Single Worst Line of Dialogue in the entire Star Trek Franchis

Nightdiamond wrote: View Post
I think the main purpose of episodes like this was to showcase how different and further evolved future humans were compared to past humans.
I agree and most of the episodes that try to showcase that point did a pretty good job at it. This one, not so much. As you said, Riker's comment would have fit much better later in the episode.
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Old September 11 2013, 05:49 PM   #289
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Re: The Single Worst Line of Dialogue in the entire Star Trek Franchis

Nightdiamond wrote: View Post
Anwar wrote: View Post

I'm actually a bit more annoyed at Riker than I am at Picard in that episode. Picard at least was under the heavy pressure of finding out if they were being invaded by Romulans and didn't interact with the 20th Century guys much. Riker comes off as pretty nasty and petty to condemn them after meeting them.
That was my thought too. If Riker made his opinion later, after hearing Ralph rant and rave about power and money, then he might have had a good point.

But IIRC, that small talk he had where the only things discussed where Ralph wanting to know about his accounts, and Sonny asking about TV, were the only things at that point.

So to me, that passage strongly implies that Sonny wanting to watch TV, something future humans find backwards, is possibly one of the things that made them look somewhat hopeless according to Riker.

I think the main purpose of episodes like this was to showcase how different and further evolved future humans were compared to past humans.


TheGoodStuff wrote: View Post

I think people are reading way too far into this. However, I suspect Picard's answer would be along the lines of

"The Holodeck allows us to interact with the story, to almost BE the story. It DOES benefit if used correctly. Even Dixon Hill is solving crimes instead of watching someone else do it."

Also, in the Star Trek universe, where we aren't forced to work 9-5 all our lives, I'd say life WOULD be far more interesting.
This is a good point, the problem comes (i think) when a character may add extra commentary that might imply condemning an activity or behavior from the past.

When Phlox said his culture quit TV because they found their real lives more interesting, it could be interpreted as a dig at TV watchers, because they continue waste their time watching other people's lives or something.
I do see what you are saying and perhaps Phlox' phrasing of that is quite poor. People use TV as a means to escape, or spice up, very repetitive lives. Im sure we would find our lives more interesting if we didn't need to spend them working to pay bills.

I'd like to think 'ole Phlox isn't quite such a elitist dude though and understands that times have changed.
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Old September 11 2013, 06:19 PM   #290
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Re: The Single Worst Line of Dialogue in the entire Star Trek Franchis

In "Day of the Dove" when Kirk told Kang to "Go to the Devil" - that's always irritated me. I guess because it's such a bold example of 1960's censorship. What's the big deal with telling him to "Go to Hell"?
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Old September 11 2013, 07:22 PM   #291
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Re: The Single Worst Line of Dialogue in the entire Star Trek Franchis

Just how it was back then. Heck, I like that Star Trek didn't have to curse every few words, like many shows these days, just to get their point across.
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Old September 11 2013, 10:18 PM   #292
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Re: The Single Worst Line of Dialogue in the entire Star Trek Franchis

R. Star wrote: View Post
Just how it was back then. Heck, I like that Star Trek didn't have to curse every few words, like many shows these days, just to get their point across.
I feel the same way.
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Old September 11 2013, 10:37 PM   #293
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Re: The Single Worst Line of Dialogue in the entire Star Trek Franchis

"Tell one of your Cracker Jack Starfleet transporter chiefs to keep a lock on me.." -Chakotay in "Caretaker".
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Old September 11 2013, 11:38 PM   #294
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Re: The Single Worst Line of Dialogue in the entire Star Trek Franchis

R. Star wrote: View Post
Just how it was back then. Heck, I like that Star Trek didn't have to curse every few words, like many shows these days, just to get their point across.
I'm not exactly looking for an epic F-bomb filled rant from Jim Kirk here. Just some reality. "Hell" isn't exactly high-up on the profanity scale, and Kirk had used it in earlier seasons once or twice in similar situations. The fact that they did such a lame thing in that scene was likely only due to it being season 3 and Gene not being around to fight against studio idiocy.

If they couldn't have said "hell" over "the devil" then just scrap the line. Because as it was, it really is a horrible example of dated dialogue. Christ, that one time Kirk told someone to "go climb a tree" wasn't as cringe-worthy.
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Old September 11 2013, 11:52 PM   #295
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Re: The Single Worst Line of Dialogue in the entire Star Trek Franchis

Frontier wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post
Just how it was back then. Heck, I like that Star Trek didn't have to curse every few words, like many shows these days, just to get their point across.
I'm not exactly looking for an epic F-bomb filled rant from Jim Kirk here. Just some reality. "Hell" isn't exactly high-up on the profanity scale, and Kirk had used it in earlier seasons once or twice in similar situations. The fact that they did such a lame thing in that scene was likely only due to it being season 3 and Gene not being around to fight against studio idiocy.
Now that you mention it, "hell" was used before.

That "Go to the devil." line may have been scripted that way from the beginning. Didn't Kang have a classy comeback about Klingons not having a devil, but being very familiar with the habits of humans devil, suggesting torture for Kirk.
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Old September 11 2013, 11:59 PM   #296
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Re: The Single Worst Line of Dialogue in the entire Star Trek Franchis

Pondwater wrote: View Post
"Tell one of your Cracker Jack Starfleet transporter chiefs to keep a lock on me.." -Chakotay in "Caretaker".
Using the term cracker, how racist of him.

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Old September 12 2013, 12:47 AM   #297
Sran
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Re: The Single Worst Line of Dialogue in the entire Star Trek Franchis

jpv2000 wrote: View Post
Didn't Kang have a classy comeback about Klingons not having a devil, but being very familiar with the habits of humans devil, suggesting torture for Kirk.
He did. Seems strange given that Worf threw a fit about Fek'lhr during "Devil's Due."

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Old September 12 2013, 01:55 AM   #298
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Re: The Single Worst Line of Dialogue in the entire Star Trek Franchis

Nightdiamond wrote: View Post
When Phlox said his culture quit TV because they found their real lives more interesting, it could be interpreted as a dig at TV watchers, because they continue waste their time watching other people's lives or something.

Why not just say, 'we did once, but we discovered other forms of media and entertainment to occupy our time'?

Besides, I think Trek and maybe Phlox misunderstood the whole point of TV--most people watch it to escape reality for a while
You continue to characterize Trek as a singular entity with a point of view to express. The various little digs at TV being discussed were written by multiple writers for multiple shows, and delivered by multiple characters whose lifetimes spanned three centuries.

And did it ever occur to you that these little jabs at TV were being delivered...on TV shows? Some might consider that to be a bit tongue-in-cheek.
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Old September 12 2013, 02:19 AM   #299
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Re: The Single Worst Line of Dialogue in the entire Star Trek Franchis

For me, it will always be......Row Row Row your boat.
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Old September 12 2013, 02:22 AM   #300
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Re: The Single Worst Line of Dialogue in the entire Star Trek Franchis

Khaaan!!!! wrote: View Post
For me, it will always be......Row Row Row your boat.
Meh. That scene doesn't make sense only because a Spock more comfortable with his human half should have been able to appreciate singing around a campfire more than he appeared to. I've always been more bothered by his, "Were we having a good time?" line than anything else.

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