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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old July 20 2013, 03:13 AM   #46
MANT!
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Re: why is star trek original series disliked

As mentioned earlier, TV tropes often says it best..

Star Trek the original series has a camp reputation, and has been endlessly parodied and mocked. People forget that Star Trek was THE trailblazer that has influenced every science fiction series after it (and even influenced non-sci-fi shows as well) up to this day. In 1967, three of the five nominees (including the winner) for the Hugo Award (awards for science fiction and fantasy) for Best Dramatic Presentation (which at the time included both television episodes and movies) were episodes of Star Trek. In 1968, the show did even better: all five nominees for Best Dramatic Presentation were Star Trek episodes.
  • In fact, society has changed so much that some of the most radical and innovative things it did are now almost entirely overlooked. A black woman, as a military officer? Said black woman, kissing a white man, at a time when that kind of thing would get you arrested (or worse) in large parts of the United States? The show's portrayal of race was so far ahead of its time that when Nichelle Nichols considered leaving the show to return to musical theater, Martin Luther King Jr. himself insisted to her that she needed to stay, telling her that the show's depiction of ethnic relations was not only unprecedented, but exactly the kind future he dreamed of, and that Star Trek was the only show he and Coretta let their children stay up to watch.
  • Not to mention that the original pilot had a FEMALE first officer.
  • It also avoided (see Babylon 5 above) "Cute Kids And Robots", at least among the regular cast, which was one reason science fiction fans at the time considered it a better, more serious show than much of the science fiction on television.
  • On the other hand, the German(-French) seven-part series - Raumpatrouille Die phantastischen Abenteuer des Raumschiffs Orion (French title: Commando spatial), which was produced at the same time (its first episode was aired on German TV nine days after that of Star Trek in America), is regarded by many German fans as equal to the original Star Trek in many respect and superior in some, most notably the roles played by its female characters. Raumpatrouille also gradually acquired a bit of a camp appeal as due to its budget limitations some prominent spaceship parts are not hard to recognize as household implements.
  • Hell, even The Next Generation hasn't really aged that well. At its time, it was noted for taking everything about the old series and modernizing it (as well as adding some twists of its own). Nowadays, with spinoffs doing the same thing and other shows going further where it could never go, the only thing it has going for it is Patrick Stewart...
TNG like TOS was a product of it's time..and both need to be viewed in the contest of the times in which they were created. One can't criticize The Count of Monte Cristo with a modern sensibility as it makes no sense to do so..
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Old July 20 2013, 03:42 AM   #47
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Re: why is star trek original series disliked

^^ Which still doesn't mean the word "camp" is being used appropriately.
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Old July 20 2013, 06:54 AM   #48
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Re: why is star trek original series disliked

MANT! wrote: View Post
As mentioned earlier, TV tropes often says it best..


Star Trek the original series has a camp reputation, and has been endlessly parodied and mocked. People forget that Star Trek was THE trailblazer that has influenced every science fiction series after it (and even influenced non-sci-fi shows as well) up to this day. In 1967, three of the five nominees (including the winner) for the Hugo Award (awards for science fiction and fantasy) for Best Dramatic Presentation (which at the time included both television episodes and movies) were episodes of Star Trek. In 1968, the show did even better: all five nominees for Best Dramatic Presentation were Star Trek episodes.
  • In fact, society has changed so much that some of the most radical and innovative things it did are now almost entirely overlooked. A black woman, as a military officer? Said black woman, kissing a white man, at a time when that kind of thing would get you arrested (or worse) in large parts of the United States? The show's portrayal of race was so far ahead of its time that when Nichelle Nichols considered leaving the show to return to musical theater, Martin Luther King Jr. himself insisted to her that she needed to stay, telling her that the show's depiction of ethnic relations was not only unprecedented, but exactly the kind future he dreamed of, and that Star Trek was the only show he and Coretta let their children stay up to watch.
  • Not to mention that the original pilot had a FEMALE first officer.
  • It also avoided (see Babylon 5 above) "Cute Kids And Robots", at least among the regular cast, which was one reason science fiction fans at the time considered it a better, more serious show than much of the science fiction on television.
  • On the other hand, the German(-French) seven-part series - Raumpatrouille Die phantastischen Abenteuer des Raumschiffs Orion (French title: Commando spatial), which was produced at the same time (its first episode was aired on German TV nine days after that of Star Trek in America), is regarded by many German fans as equal to the original Star Trek in many respect and superior in some, most notably the roles played by its female characters. Raumpatrouille also gradually acquired a bit of a camp appeal as due to its budget limitations some prominent spaceship parts are not hard to recognize as household implements.
  • Hell, even The Next Generation hasn't really aged that well. At its time, it was noted for taking everything about the old series and modernizing it (as well as adding some twists of its own). Nowadays, with spinoffs doing the same thing and other shows going further where it could never go, the only thing it has going for it is Patrick Stewart...
TNG like TOS was a product of it's time..and both need to be viewed in the contest of the times in which they were created. One can't criticize The Count of Monte Cristo with a modern sensibility as it makes no sense to do so..
As much as I like Star Trek (TOS) I don't agree with what TV Tropes states and BOTH "The Twilight Zone" and the original "The Outer Limits" were adult themed science fiction, and had a lot of influence (and I'm sure help spur GR to make Star Trek - along with the earlier feature film "Forbidden Planet".)

Many like to claim 'Star Trek' was the first attempt at adult science fiction on television; but that not accurate.
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Old July 20 2013, 03:09 PM   #49
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Re: why is star trek original series disliked

Carcazoid wrote: View Post
Shows from that era aren't understood by much of the current generation spoiled by HD big screen TVs, CGI effects, 3D movies, video games, smart phones, and high speed internet. These things are recent developments in technology, but try explaining that to kids these days.

They just won't believe ya.
Well, to be fair, were we any different when we were young and ignorant? Granted, today's younger generation has a whole different kind of ignorant about them that is frankly, alarming, but what can you do?

Speaking for myself though, I can remember being a teenager back in the 80's, and discovering that three of my favorite characters (Batman, Superman, and Buck Rogers) had films (serials) made about them in the early 1940's when my grandparents were teenagers and young adults. I tracked these films down, and watched them, and not only enjoyed them for what they were, and never once considering them "primitive", but that made me open to checking out other films from that era.

You're right. Today's kids won't do that for some reason. It would be nice if one of them would explain to me why that is.
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Old July 20 2013, 03:34 PM   #50
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Re: why is star trek original series disliked

If you grew up watching a b&w television (at least for a few years at first) then you likely were more receptive to older b&w films and television shows. But if all you ever knew was color TV then your experience and biases might be quite different.

Not all of today's youth are write-offs, so to speak. I've known a few that aren't put off by b&w or dated production standards and f/x---indeed they're actually quite interested in what came before.

Last summer a young coworker asked me about the original film Logan's Run. I told him about the film and yet also wondered whether he could get into it. He replied he'd still like to see it so I lent him my dvd of the film. The next day he told me he'd loved it and particularly liked the story and interesting ideas. I next lent him The Omega Man which he really liked also.

I teased him about maybe having been born in the wrong era.
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Old July 20 2013, 03:51 PM   #51
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Re: why is star trek original series disliked

RandyS wrote: View Post
You're right. Today's kids won't do that for some reason. It would be nice if one of them would explain to me why that is.
I think it comes down to their being so much more to do nowadays. From video games to the internet to the 500-hundred channel universe.

In the early-80's when we first got cable you had thirty channels, only two of those were premium movie channels (HBO, The Movie Channel). Now we have ten versions of HBO alone.
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Old July 20 2013, 04:07 PM   #52
J.T.B.
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Re: why is star trek original series disliked

Warped9 wrote: View Post
If you grew up watching a b&w television (at least for a few years at first) then you likely were more receptive to older b&w films and television shows. But if all you ever knew was color TV then your experience and biases might be quite different.
Also, before home video you didn't have a lot of choice about what to watch. If you wanted to watch TV, you had to watch what was on at that time. And if you had cable or independent stations, a lot of the programming was older TV and older movies. So the "dividing lines" between different kinds of shows didn't seem as strongly defined. When I was a kid, I never thought of a B&W show on our color TV as somehow different or dated, it was just something that was on TV and I liked it or not on its own merits.
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Old July 20 2013, 04:56 PM   #53
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Re: why is star trek original series disliked

Noname Given wrote: View Post
As much as I like Star Trek (TOS) I don't agree with what TV Tropes states and BOTH "The Twilight Zone" and the original "The Outer Limits" were adult themed science fiction, and had a lot of influence (and I'm sure help spur GR to make Star Trek - along with the earlier feature film "Forbidden Planet".)

Many like to claim 'Star Trek' was the first attempt at adult science fiction on television; but that not accurate.
Agreed as a huge Twilight Zone fan (and to a lesser extent Outer Limits). Like Star Trek this series also dealt with issues of the day using the cloak of sci-fi.

The main difference to me is Star Trek has a regular cast of characters whereas TZ and OL were anthology TV.

Both of these have their pluses and minuses. I love the characters and their interaction in Star Trek. This is of course missing from anthology shows. But the fact that TZ and OL didn't have regular characters, they could leave you with stronger endings where everything didn't always end well. TZ has some of the best endings in Television for me.
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Old July 20 2013, 09:20 PM   #54
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Re: why is star trek original series disliked

J.T.B. wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
If you grew up watching a b&w television (at least for a few years at first) then you likely were more receptive to older b&w films and television shows. But if all you ever knew was color TV then your experience and biases might be quite different.
Also, before home video you didn't have a lot of choice about what to watch. If you wanted to watch TV, you had to watch what was on at that time. And if you had cable or independent stations, a lot of the programming was older TV and older movies. So the "dividing lines" between different kinds of shows didn't seem as strongly defined. When I was a kid, I never thought of a B&W show on our color TV as somehow different or dated, it was just something that was on TV and I liked it or not on its own merits.
Indeed, as a kid in the 70s, practically everything I watched in the way of daily syndicated reruns was from the 60s, if it wasn't from the 50s. And a lot of it was in black and white.

And while we had a color TV in the living room, if you wanted to watch something other than what everyone else was watching in the living room, you had to watch it on a little black and white bedroom TV.
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Old July 20 2013, 09:45 PM   #55
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Re: why is star trek original series disliked

RandyS wrote: View Post
Carcazoid wrote: View Post
Shows from that era aren't understood by much of the current generation spoiled by HD big screen TVs, CGI effects, 3D movies, video games, smart phones, and high speed internet. These things are recent developments in technology, but try explaining that to kids these days.

They just won't believe ya.
Well, to be fair, were we any different when we were young and ignorant? Granted, today's younger generation has a whole different kind of ignorant about them that is frankly, alarming, but what can you do?.
Says every single older generation about the newer generation ever........
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Old July 20 2013, 10:45 PM   #56
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Re: why is star trek original series disliked

Cinema Geekly wrote: View Post
RandyS wrote: View Post
Carcazoid wrote: View Post
Shows from that era aren't understood by much of the current generation spoiled by HD big screen TVs, CGI effects, 3D movies, video games, smart phones, and high speed internet. These things are recent developments in technology, but try explaining that to kids these days.

They just won't believe ya.
Well, to be fair, were we any different when we were young and ignorant? Granted, today's younger generation has a whole different kind of ignorant about them that is frankly, alarming, but what can you do?.
Says every single older generation about the newer generation ever........
That don't mean it ain't true.
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Old July 20 2013, 11:02 PM   #57
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Re: why is star trek original series disliked

Warped9 wrote: View Post
If you grew up watching a b&w television (at least for a few years at first) then you likely were more receptive to older b&w films and television shows. But if all you ever knew was color TV then your experience and biases might be quite different.

Not all of today's youth are write-offs, so to speak. I've known a few that aren't put off by b&w or dated production standards and f/x---indeed they're actually quite interested in what came before.
I didn't mean to imply that today's youth are all write-offs. Just that they come off as the most arrogant and close-minded generation I've ever seen.

That doesn't necessarily make them write-offs.
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Old July 21 2013, 12:12 AM   #58
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Re: why is star trek original series disliked

Indeed, as a kid in the 70s, practically everything I watched in the way of daily syndicated reruns was from the 60s, if it wasn't from the 50s. And a lot of it was in black and white.

And while we had a color TV in the living room, if you wanted to watch something other than what everyone else was watching in the living room, you had to watch it on a little black and white bedroom TV.

I'm 45 and grew up without cable Tv until I went to college......love tos ...I think its all a matter of when you grew up.....this was long before the pc craze started in the 80s
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Old July 21 2013, 03:20 AM   #59
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Re: why is star trek original series disliked

RandyS wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
If you grew up watching a b&w television (at least for a few years at first) then you likely were more receptive to older b&w films and television shows. But if all you ever knew was color TV then your experience and biases might be quite different.

Not all of today's youth are write-offs, so to speak. I've known a few that aren't put off by b&w or dated production standards and f/x---indeed they're actually quite interested in what came before.
I didn't mean to imply that today's youth are all write-offs. Just that they come off as the most arrogant and close-minded generation I've ever seen.

That doesn't necessarily make them write-offs.
That's what every single generation says about the generations that come after them

"oh but no, this time it's different!"
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Old July 21 2013, 02:20 PM   #60
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Re: why is star trek original series disliked

Yup, articles written BCE say exactly the same thing, and here we are, more educated and better off than ever, still having to put up with crotchity old gits making the same argument.
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