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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Deep Space Nine

Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old September 10 2011, 09:28 PM   #1
comeaution22
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Deep Space Nine DVD on Blu-Ray Quality issues

Hello Niners,

Recently I have been rewatching DS9 on dvd. I have a blu-ray player and a nice high definition television. When I watch the show, specifically the space scenes and the scenes with the credits scrolling on the bottom, the image becomes blocky, almost like it is skipping.

It seems like this is only a problem with DS9 as I watch lots of other DVD's on my blu-ray and have no problem. I thought it was a problem with only one of the disc, but both seasons 1 & 2 are doing the same thing! HELP! I am worried that the 3-7 are the same and they have some of the best space scenes in all of trek! I don't want to watch "The Way of the Warrior" or "What You Leave Behind" with skipping space scenes!

Lost in Blu-Ray Bajor.
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Old September 10 2011, 09:53 PM   #2
DonIago
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Re: Deep Space Nine DVD on Blu-Ray Quality issues

I have noted the same issue, though it never gets past "distracting" and into outright "annoying" territory for me, thankfully.

My best guess is that either your TV or Blu Ray player, or both, are upscaling the image, and for some reason it's not being handled very well. I haven't tried disabling any upscaling, but that might be worth investigating, if it's even possible to do.
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Old September 11 2011, 03:12 AM   #3
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Re: Deep Space Nine DVD on Blu-Ray Quality issues

^ It's not. You cannot disable upscaling. Whether it be on your TV or the BluRay player, it will occur. It must occur, because if it didn't, you would get a small postage stamp sized image in the middle of the screen surrounded by a foot or two of black on all sides.
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Old September 11 2011, 03:14 AM   #4
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Re: Deep Space Nine DVD on Blu-Ray Quality issues

I can't imagine that that's true in the sense that I mean it, because DVD players don't have upscaling in the way that I'm talking about it.
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Old September 11 2011, 03:18 AM   #5
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Re: Deep Space Nine DVD on Blu-Ray Quality issues

How do you mean it, then?

I mean, to my mind there is only one definition of the word 'upscaling': taking a standard definition image and displaying it on a HD set. (NOT actually making it HD, since that is impossible.) And even if your BR player does not do this, all HDTVs will. It cannot be turned off.

Usually, HDTVs have better upscalers than players do, anyway.
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Old September 11 2011, 03:54 AM   #6
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Re: Deep Space Nine DVD on Blu-Ray Quality issues

My understanding is that there's 1080p upscaling (or upconversion), which Blu Ray players can do but DVD players do not. Consequently, DVDs often look a little better played on a Blu Ray player than on a standard DVD player.
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Old September 11 2011, 09:18 PM   #7
comeaution22
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Re: Deep Space Nine DVD on Blu-Ray Quality issues

I appreciate the discussion. I guess I will just have to look forward to and invest in Blu-Ray copies of DS9.
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Old September 11 2011, 09:49 PM   #8
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Re: Deep Space Nine DVD on Blu-Ray Quality issues

DonIago wrote: View Post
My understanding is that there's 1080p upscaling (or upconversion), which Blu Ray players can do but DVD players do not. Consequently, DVDs often look a little better played on a Blu Ray player than on a standard DVD player.
Which makes no sense at all, nor is it true.

A (European/PAL) DVD is 720x576 pixels with a pixel aspect ratio of 1,42 -> 1024x576.

Every time it is played on a HDTV, it is upscaled. Otherwise it would not fill the screen that has 1920x1080 visible pixels. And it doesn't matter where the upscaling happens, whether it happens in the TV or the DVD player.

Blu ray players are no different. They get 720x576 pixels and upscale to 1920x1080. Done. The most common upscaling filter is Bicubic, followed by Bilinear. The differences are marginal. There is no magical CSI algorithm that adds new information that magically makes a DVD image sharper than it actually is. Yeah, they can run an additional Sharpen filter, but every TV, DVD player or blu ray player has that option.

Upscaling is upscaling, it doesn't matter where it happens. TVs scale 480i, 576i, 576p and 720p signals up by default. So does a blu ray player.
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Old September 12 2011, 12:37 AM   #9
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Re: Deep Space Nine DVD on Blu-Ray Quality issues

comeaution22 wrote: View Post
I appreciate the discussion. I guess I will just have to look forward to and invest in Blu-Ray copies of DS9.
It might be a while until that happens, unfortunately.
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Old September 12 2011, 02:15 PM   #10
comeaution22
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Re: Deep Space Nine DVD on Blu-Ray Quality issues

Thanks everyone.

FYI for everyone, especially Mr. Laser Beam. I called Sony customer support and they walked me through shutting down the "upscaling" on the blu-ray player. Although it isn't as simple as turning it off, my blu-ray player has the option of turning on and off the BD-DVD- ROM 1080p format in the screen options in the main menu. Once I turned it off, everything went back to normal.

I asked what that did, and the man on the phone said that it essentially turned off the "upscaling" the blu-ray player does when a dvd is inserted.

I can't tell the difference in quality as I actually believe the DS9 conversion to DVD sucks anyways, so it makes little to no difference. It still fits the screen and isn't pixelated.
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Old September 12 2011, 03:56 PM   #11
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Re: Deep Space Nine DVD on Blu-Ray Quality issues

Sounds like to some degree I knew what I was talking about after all. Go me.

Given I also have a Sony Blu Ray player, I'd be curious to hear what you did if you wouldn't mind sharing!
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Old September 12 2011, 04:12 PM   #12
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Re: Deep Space Nine DVD on Blu-Ray Quality issues

^ You two must have decent HDTVs then, because like I said, most of them have better upscalers than the players do.

What model BR player do you have, comeaution? I have a Sony model (BDP-S560) and it doesn't have an option - to disable upscaling - like you described.
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Old September 12 2011, 06:01 PM   #13
JarodRussell
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Re: Deep Space Nine DVD on Blu-Ray Quality issues

comeaution22 wrote: View Post
Thanks everyone.

FYI for everyone, especially Mr. Laser Beam. I called Sony customer support and they walked me through shutting down the "upscaling" on the blu-ray player. Although it isn't as simple as turning it off, my blu-ray player has the option of turning on and off the BD-DVD- ROM 1080p format in the screen options in the main menu. Once I turned it off, everything went back to normal.

I asked what that did, and the man on the phone said that it essentially turned off the "upscaling" the blu-ray player does when a dvd is inserted.

I can't tell the difference in quality as I actually believe the DS9 conversion to DVD sucks anyways, so it makes little to no difference. It still fits the screen and isn't pixelated.
If the blu ray player does the upscaling, the TV gets a 1920x1080 pixel signal. If you disable upscaling in the blu ray player, it gets a 720x576 pixel signal. Most TVs even show what signal they get in the upper right corner or something (saying "1080p", "720p", "576i" or something). And then your TV does the upscaling automatically. There really is no difference.
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Old September 12 2011, 06:32 PM   #14
22 Stars
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Re: Deep Space Nine DVD on Blu-Ray Quality issues

I think the confusion is the difference between upscaling and upconverting. One just bumps the displayed image size, the other tries to interpolate the signal and fill in the gaps.
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Old September 14 2011, 06:18 PM   #15
doobington
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Re: Deep Space Nine DVD on Blu-Ray Quality issues

I remember watching Season 5 of DS9 and I thought there was a problem with my TV, during the first credits the blacks had terrible blues through. The TV was under warranty and they replaced the screen - turns out there was nothing wrong with the screen, the discs are just pretty poor quality (as were the original TNG discs)

I for one would buy the blu rays if they were ever released, i can't see it though.
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