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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old January 1 2014, 01:59 AM   #871
plynch
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Re: New Book about TOS: These Are The Voyages

You certainly have a point. A panel of editors I heard speak at a writers' convention talked of sometimes being very involved with the re-development of the work. It is true in fiction the author writes an entire draft first, but more work might follow after the expert eyes/mind of an editor get involved. And apparently some authors quite adept at characterization or dialog suck at grammar. If I were mailing out a draft of a novel, I'd sure want it as "correct" as possible, but there are supposedly name authors who aren't so good mechanically. I now forget the different types of editors the panel was naming, but content editors (iir the title correctly), copyeditors and proofers all have different and necessary roles at the publisher.

Hey, Christopher or Greg Cox, can you weigh in with how active fiction editors are? Maybe what I learned is bunk. Although I'm pretty good grammatically (esp. where split infinitives are concerned, eh, Christopher?) my editor found some things that didn't sound good; and made me eliminate many commas, my bane. And helped me see big picture stuff. And confirmed some of my hopes for readers outside music. And noted my use of fragments. Which was often intentional since I was writing colloquially.

In nonfiction, from the copious reading I did before sending out book proposals, if one already has a platform/following, one can get an agent and publisher; and I understand large allowances are made for one's English and usage. A big name or real expertise are rare; people who can reshape/fix one's writings, alas, are common. (Spoken as a father of an English major who doesn't want to teach.)
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Old January 4 2014, 04:03 AM   #872
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Re: New Book about TOS: These Are The Voyages

I'm about thirty percent into rereading TATV revised edition. It does read cleaner than the first go around although I have spotted the odd misstype. Some of the factual errors do appear to remain. The one that comes most immediately to mind is the statement that NBC had never done sci-fi before, and this in the face of Harvey clarifying that that assertion is incorrect. Cushman could simply have said NBC had never done anything remotely like TOS before and it would have been a fair statement.

I am reminded again of the friction that began to arise between writers and Gene Roddenberry over rewrites. John D.F. Black is on record as not liking GR's rewrites particularly with writers of Matheson's calbre. But I can't get away from seeing it in a different light: no matter how good the writer's work might be GR had a vision for the show and had the right to make the stories fit the series with a measure of consistency. And in many cases the rewrites did improve the final filmed episodes. With "The Enemy Within" Matheson wanted to focus almost exclusively on the situation of the two Kirks. He was against the B plot element of Sulu and the stranded crewman in danger of freezing to death. Matheson's initial concept also had an evil Kirk that was less intelligent and not that cunning, essentially more a simple brute. It was Roddenberry who pushed making the evil Kirk more intelligent and cunning. GR also suggested while we could see the evil Kirk drinking it was entirely unnecessary to see him actually drunk.
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Old January 6 2014, 01:38 AM   #873
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Re: New Book about TOS: These Are The Voyages

Warped9 wrote: View Post
I am reminded again of the friction that began to arise between writers and Gene Roddenberry over rewrites. John D.F. Black is on record as not liking GR's rewrites particularly with writers of Matheson's calbre.
Wasn't it David Gerrold who said something like Gene could turn a bad story into a good story and a great into a good story?
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Old January 6 2014, 01:57 AM   #874
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Re: New Book about TOS: These Are The Voyages

I believe that's a Gerrold quote, yes.
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Old January 6 2014, 02:00 AM   #875
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Re: New Book about TOS: These Are The Voyages

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
I am reminded again of the friction that began to arise between writers and Gene Roddenberry over rewrites. John D.F. Black is on record as not liking GR's rewrites particularly with writers of Matheson's calbre.
Wasn't it David Gerrold who said something like Gene could turn a bad story into a good story and a great into a good story?
GR was within his rights to make certain the stories fit the series. The fact that many of the early episodes are effective and well regarded backs him up. This isn't to say the writers didn't do good work, but did their finished work fit the series as is? Re-reading these chapters on each episode it often does come across that many if not most of GR's rewrites were improvements toward the final results.
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Old January 6 2014, 10:46 PM   #876
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Re: New Book about TOS: These Are The Voyages

GSchnitzer wrote: View Post
I don’t think there are actually any clips in this book that weren't simply harvested from StarTrekHistory or from the "birdofthegalaxy" Flickr page without permission or even attribution.
Not even a single rare photo in the book can be attributed to "The Collector"? This recent post on his Star Trek Prop Authority website from Jan. 4 is long overdue, IMO.

http://www.startrekpropauthority.com...s-look-at.html
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Old January 6 2014, 10:56 PM   #877
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Re: New Book about TOS: These Are The Voyages

Gerald, is that you?
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Old January 6 2014, 11:02 PM   #878
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Re: New Book about TOS: These Are The Voyages

Harvey wrote: View Post
Gerald, is that you?
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Old January 6 2014, 11:24 PM   #879
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Re: New Book about TOS: These Are The Voyages

Harvey wrote: View Post
Gurian runs the Star Trek Prop Authority website. In many cases, the photos attributed to him were pilfered from other sources, including Star Trek History, without getting permission
Said with such assurance, Harvey.

At least you can be credited with allowing for the possibility that a single image (= ONE) photo can be attributed to him.

I am certainly a fan of "The Collector"'s website, and a supporter of this enjoyable book by Mr. Cushman! I just thought this article was newsworthy ...

http://www.startrekpropauthority.com...s-look-at.html

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Old January 6 2014, 11:55 PM   #880
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Re: New Book about TOS: These Are The Voyages

I'll say one thing with assurance: "Some of the images weren't pilfered!" is hardly a passable defense.
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Old January 7 2014, 12:25 AM   #881
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Re: New Book about TOS: These Are The Voyages

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I'll say one thing with assurance: "Some of the images weren't pilfered!" is hardly a passable defense.
Can you not be gracious when your thesis is shown to be fundamentally incorrect? Do you expect to see some lineage behind every single "public domain" image included in the book series?

I think I see quite a few Lincoln clips in "The Collector"'s article that were also supposedly restored by startrekhistory and are currently displayed there. If I might make the observation, you appear now to be just "digging in" to your past position without any reasonable consideration of the evidence that was just plainly posted for all to see.

And, as I've asked you previously, where is your evidence that unquestionably connects even a single "pilfered" B&W book photo to a startrekhistory restoration versus other iterations on the web?
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Old January 7 2014, 12:56 AM   #882
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Re: New Book about TOS: These Are The Voyages

Y'know, Harvey seems to be a quite passable researcher and historian himself, and I'd consider his qualifications a lot less impeachable than damned near anybody else on this board, myself included. I don't think the onus is on him at all here.

This is not Pauline Kael being selective in her reporting and deliberately fucking over Orson Welles about the authorship of CITIZEN KANE, you know. It's more like calling it as it looks, when looking with sharp eyes.
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Old January 7 2014, 01:07 AM   #883
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Re: New Book about TOS: These Are The Voyages

I still find it curious that stcanada29 joined this board basically the very day the photo issue came up and posts almost exclusively in this thread and almost always about the photos, even when we've moved off that topic. It certainly smacks of an involved party instead of just another user.
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Old January 7 2014, 01:16 AM   #884
stcanada29
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Re: New Book about TOS: These Are The Voyages

trevanian wrote: View Post
Y'know, Harvey seems to be a quite passable researcher and historian himself, and I'd consider his qualifications a lot less impeachable than damned near anybody else on this board, myself included. I don't think the onus is on him at all here.
You may be right, but in all fairness, I have just seen compelling evidence on the Star Trek Prop Authority site of a massive rare TOS image collection that even includes Matt Jefferies personal film cells. And it seems this collection even dwarfs the collection presented on startrekhistory.

Also I also see very sweeping allegations of wrongdoing made by Harvey without ANY serious research at all to support his statements. Research that you say he is capable of performing. I just think there should be some onus of proof on him if he feels compelled to attack people's reputations in a public forum.
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Old January 7 2014, 01:17 AM   #885
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Re: New Book about TOS: These Are The Voyages

And his refusal to say who he is in real life.

The writing in that Gurian post sounds a lot like stcanada29's.
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