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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old August 22 2013, 06:48 PM   #256
Warped9
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Re: New Book about TOS: These Are The Voyages

I'd be interested in knowing more about the thinking and development that went into the stories. Why did they make certain creative decisions and where did certain ideas come from and perhaps how they were reasoned out.
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Old August 22 2013, 07:55 PM   #257
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Re: New Book about TOS: These Are The Voyages

From the bits I've read, the book is less an analysis/critique of the series than a document of the day to day running of the show.

Of course, you can read between the lines and come to your own conclusions on why they did what they did, the choices they made, etc. The impression I get from this (and the Solow/Justman book) is that they were always behind the eightball and did things by the seat of their pants and at the last minute. It sounds like a hellish work environment.
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Old August 22 2013, 08:17 PM   #258
trevanian
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Re: New Book about TOS: These Are The Voyages

HAPLESS,

I've been upset that John Landis avoided a felony conviction
on the TWILIGHT ZONE case. As a result, I have never paid to see anything he did since. As much as I enjoyed ANIMAL HOUSE, I'd only ever pick it up 2nd hand at all.

If you don't vote your conscience with your pocketbook, you're not really sending any message of dissent. Warner has always treated the SUPERMAN originators badly, if there hadn't been a public outcry in the 70s they wouldn't have made the offering they did.

On a lighter note, I think that TSFS misreference should read:
In Search of Dr. Spock.
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Old August 22 2013, 08:36 PM   #259
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Re: New Book about TOS: These Are The Voyages

Ktrek wrote: View Post

I'm sorry but I don't believe Startrekhistory about this supposed "tell" in the photos. I don't believe it's possible to say with any amount of certainty that the pictures in the book have been geleaned from their website. I think they have intentionally stirred up the pot out of jealousy, animosity or some other motive against Marc Cushman. I can't understand all that's behind them trying to take credit for what doesn't legally belong to them either. I have looked through many of the photos on their site and the restoration work is nothing more than poor Photoshop color correcting, which anyone, myself included, could do with the same images they own. I commend their desire to take photos that have long been available and make them more presentable on the web but that gives them no specific rights whatsoever. In fact what they have done is technically illegal because they do not own the pictures. As I have emphatically stated before, and will once again, the only owner of copyright on those photos are the "photographers" themselves. You may buy and purchase copies of photos but doing so gives you absolutely no right to reproduce, change, or modify those photos without the photographer's permission. It's obvious that many people here feel that Startrekhistory has some kind of rights when in fact they have none and in fact have violated the rights of the photographers. This copyright law about the ownership of photos has been around for many many years and is the reason why photo copy centers must have photographer copyright release forms. Especially if the photo appears to have been done by a professional or contains content that would infringe on the rights of persons within the photos. I dare say Startrekhistoy has probably never sought out any permissions whatsoever from the photographers, actors, or others displayed in the content of the photos.

So, perhaps Cushman was wrong in gleaning these photos, which has as yet NOT been proven, from Startrekhistory, but Startrekhistory is just as guilty of copyright infringement and their site should be removed immediately until they acquire the necessary documentation from the photographers and actors whose images they are illegally hosting.

Kevin
First we’d like to again thank the TrekBBS community for supporting us – we really appreciate it. Secondly, we’d like to address some of the comments since our last post in this thread.

• With regards to the “tells” in the pictures on our site, both GSchnitzer and Harvey are correct. Some information about this is available on the TATV Facebook page in their picture comments sections. We have, however, performed more detailed comparisons, but we’re reluctant to release the results publically because of individuals who would be interested in harvesting our pictures.

• We want to point out that we were not the only site that had its pictures collected and mis-credited. For example, those from birdofthegalaxy were also posted on their Facebook page.

• When startrekhistory.com went live in 2003, we employed “hard” watermarking on each of the pictures to show their web origin. Many fans wrote to us and complained that the watermarks interfered with their enjoyment of the pictures. Thus, we switched to a floating watermark system that would allow the pictures to be seen un-obscured while still indicating their web origin. This floating mark was time-consuming to code, but we thought it would allow better viewing of the pictures. Now, as a result of this apparent situation, any further pictures which we may post on our website will be hard watermarked.

• With respect to the photos on our site, it was said that they are “…nothing more than poor Photoshop color correcting, which anyone, myself included, could do with the same images they own. I commend their desire to take photos that have long been available and make them more presentable on the web…”

With regards to Ktrek’s comment that the photos on our site are “poorly” color corrected, perhaps he could show us examples what he feels is adequate or superior color correcting of original series film clips that he has done?
The second part of this assertion, that the photos have long been available and we make them available on the web, is a broad statement. To our knowledge, the majority of the images from film trims on our site have never been in print. What specific photos on our site have been “long available?” Please elaborate and provide web addresses, or books in which you’ve seen them in.

Franky, what bothers us the most about what has happened is the lack of common courtesy and professionalism from those who took our pictures. All of this may have been avoided if we had been asked by the publisher and/or author, at the very beginning, if we were interested in providing pictures of the appropriate quality. But, rather then being professional and polite, we were left dealing with an underhanded, opportunistic and unprofessional scenario.

Finally, as one of the moderators said, “We’re just going in circles here.” We at startrekhistory.com need to move forward.
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Old August 22 2013, 08:40 PM   #260
BillJ
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Re: New Book about TOS: These Are The Voyages

trevanian wrote: View Post

If you don't vote your conscience with your pocketbook, you're not really sending any message of dissent.
This.

But it's really up to each individual purchaser whether the publisher acted inappropriately in acquiring the photos.

Capt.Mac wrote: View Post
Now, as a result of this apparent situation, any further pictures which we may post on our website will be hard watermarked.
A shame. But you have to do what you have to do to protect your work.
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Old August 22 2013, 10:41 PM   #261
HaplessCrewman
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Re: New Book about TOS: These Are The Voyages

trevanian wrote: View Post
HAPLESS,

I've been upset that John Landis avoided a felony conviction
on the TWILIGHT ZONE case. As a result, I have never paid to see anything he did since. As much as I enjoyed ANIMAL HOUSE, I'd only ever pick it up 2nd hand at all.

If you don't vote your conscience with your pocketbook, you're not really sending any message of dissent. Warner has always treated the SUPERMAN originators badly, if there hadn't been a public outcry in the 70s they wouldn't have made the offering they did.

On a lighter note, I think that TSFS misreference should read:
In Search of Dr. Spock.
Ha ha. Yeah, it's whatever one can live with.

As Landis was the director and therefore responsible for everything that happened on set, I would blame him for Vic Morrrow's death as well. And, of course I applaud Neal Adams' efforts in the 70's to help the Superman creators.

I don't want to derail this thread - so back on topic. I've just come to the part in the book where Trek premieres. It's amazing that the episode air-dates were based almost entirely on what episode was finished - the ones needing extensive SFX being pushed back in the schedule. Even more reason to favor production order over air-date order for viewing.

Also, Shatner sounds incredibly professional and sincere in the early press interviews he gave while promoting the premiere in 1966. A far cry from his late glib attitude toward the show.
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Old August 22 2013, 10:50 PM   #262
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Re: New Book about TOS: These Are The Voyages

Shatner had a piece of the show, besides his salary. Its success meant his success.
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Old August 22 2013, 11:20 PM   #263
HaplessCrewman
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Re: New Book about TOS: These Are The Voyages

Melakon wrote: View Post
Shatner had a piece of the show, besides his salary. Its success meant his success.
Very true.

According to the book, it was a coup that Trek got Shatner as he was an up and coming star at the time.

As much as I like Jeffrey Hunter, Trek would probably not have been a success with him. No one can deny Shatner's charisma and passion. I've never seen him not give his all to a role - no matter how ridiculous a part it was.
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Old August 23 2013, 12:36 AM   #264
trevanian
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Re: New Book about TOS: These Are The Voyages

It's alchemy. Nimoy and Hunter ... two recessives. But Nimoy and Shatner ... very complementary. Add Kelley and the writing of Coon and two-thirds of the way through season 1 you have magic that goes beyond just another SF story.

In the old SHATNER WHERE NO MAN book, Nimoy says as much, noting that it would have been much harder to work out his own portrayal against Hunter's, whereas Shatner carved out a huge block of the scene and Nimoy knew to operate in what was left in a kind of counterpunching low-key way.
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Old August 23 2013, 06:31 AM   #265
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Re: New Book about TOS: These Are The Voyages

For the record, I explained to the lawyer exactly where the images came from (film trims, etc,), what was done to them (extensive photo restoration), and how they were used in a commercial work without clearance by either the original copyright owner or the people who did the restoration.

All I'm going to say about this entertainment lawyer is that he has worked with film and media since the 80s and cleared properties for use in major motion pictures, including one that last year made over 160 million dollars domestic box office, so you'll pardon me if I take his opinion about a thousand times more over those posted here.
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Old August 23 2013, 06:46 AM   #266
Melakon
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Re: New Book about TOS: These Are The Voyages

HaplessCrewman wrote: View Post
. . .According to the book, it was a coup that Trek got Shatner as he was an up and coming star at the time. . .
Shatner had just had his own show, For the People, which apparently was some sort of mid-season replacement. It ran for 13 episodes between January and May 1965. That left him free to do the second pilot. I don't remember For the People, I was probably watching another network.
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Old August 23 2013, 01:18 PM   #267
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Re: New Book about TOS: These Are The Voyages

Maurice wrote: View Post
For the record, I explained to the lawyer exactly where the images came from (film trims, etc,), what was done to them (extensive photo restoration), and how they were used in a commercial work without clearance by either the original copyright owner or the people who did the restoration.

All I'm going to say about this entertainment lawyer is that he has worked with film and media since the 80s and cleared properties for use in major motion pictures, including one that last year made over 160 million dollars domestic box office, so you'll pardon me if I take his opinion about a thousand times more over those posted here.
This reminds me of a situation among my friends many years ago. One was dating a girl of about 20 (we were in our mid-30s), and one night at a party, they had a legal question for another friend who was a practicing lawyer. He gave his opinion based on his years of schooling and experience. Only the 20 year old girlfriend didn't like the answer. After our lawyer friend left, the girlfriend started ranting about how he obviously didn't know what he was talking about, and how they could probably do this and that without getting in legal trouble...
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Old August 23 2013, 09:19 PM   #268
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Re: New Book about TOS: These Are The Voyages

Maurice wrote: View Post
For the record, I explained to the lawyer exactly where the images came from (film trims, etc,), what was done to them (extensive photo restoration), and how they were used in a commercial work without clearance by either the original copyright owner or the people who did the restoration.

All I'm going to say about this entertainment lawyer is that he has worked with film and media since the 80s and cleared properties for use in major motion pictures, including one that last year made over 160 million dollars domestic box office, so you'll pardon me if I take his opinion about a thousand times more over those posted here.
Thanks for weighing in, dude! If you didn't mention the film trims were created in the '60s; before all the copyright laws changed in the mid-70's - that might have a bearing on things. I would suspect; even though he's been practicing since the 80s he would be familiar with the history of copyright legislation. No one here needs to be a lawyer to confirm that the copyrights laws underwent a major overhaul in the mid-70s. Just saying - perhaps he thought your question pertained to stuff created in the modern era. It would seem to make the publisher and the opinions of their legal team look very foolish (assuming they consulted with lawyers of their own) if they went ahead and filled their book with images that were still owned by CBS. Maybe they are as stupid as you suggest, then.

Also, if you suggested that there was "an original copyright owner" that may be misleading, since I think the publisher is claiming the pics were never originally copyrighted since the studio didn't bother to individually register them as they claim was required at the time. So the studio forfeited any property rights. But hey, I'm absolutely NOT a lawyer, dude. I bow to your superior knowledge!

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Old August 23 2013, 10:23 PM   #269
HaplessCrewman
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Re: New Book about TOS: These Are The Voyages

stcanada29 wrote: View Post
Maurice wrote: View Post
For the record, I explained to the lawyer exactly where the images came from (film trims, etc,), what was done to them (extensive photo restoration), and how they were used in a commercial work without clearance by either the original copyright owner or the people who did the restoration.

All I'm going to say about this entertainment lawyer is that he has worked with film and media since the 80s and cleared properties for use in major motion pictures, including one that last year made over 160 million dollars domestic box office, so you'll pardon me if I take his opinion about a thousand times more over those posted here.
Thanks for weighing in, dude! If you didn't mention the film trims were created in the '60s; before all the copyright laws changed in the mid-70's - that might have a bearing on things. I would suspect; even though he's been practicing since the 80s he would be familiar with the history of copyright legislation. No one here needs to be a lawyer to confirm that the copyrights laws underwent a major overhaul in the mid-70s. Just saying - perhaps he thought your question pertained to stuff created in the modern era. It would seem to make the publisher and the opinions of their legal team look very foolish (assuming they consulted with lawyers of their own) if they went ahead and filled their book with images that were still owned by CBS. Maybe they are as stupid as you suggest, then.

Also, if you suggested that there was "an original copyright owner" that may be misleading, since I think the publisher is claiming the pics were never originally copyrighted since the studio didn't bother to individually register them as they claim was required at the time. So the studio forfeited any property rights. But hey, I'm absolutely NOT a lawyer, dude. I bow to your superior knowledge!
Maurice,

I think you would be much more credible if you used the word 'dude' more often.
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Old August 23 2013, 11:16 PM   #270
stcanada29
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Re: New Book about TOS: These Are The Voyages

HaplessCrewman wrote: View Post
stcanada29 wrote: View Post
Maurice wrote: View Post
For the record, I explained to the lawyer exactly where the images came from (film trims, etc,), what was done to them (extensive photo restoration), and how they were used in a commercial work without clearance by either the original copyright owner or the people who did the restoration.

All I'm going to say about this entertainment lawyer is that he has worked with film and media since the 80s and cleared properties for use in major motion pictures, including one that last year made over 160 million dollars domestic box office, so you'll pardon me if I take his opinion about a thousand times more over those posted here.
Thanks for weighing in, dude! If you didn't mention the film trims were created in the '60s; before all the copyright laws changed in the mid-70's - that might have a bearing on things. I would suspect; even though he's been practicing since the 80s he would be familiar with the history of copyright legislation. No one here needs to be a lawyer to confirm that the copyrights laws underwent a major overhaul in the mid-70s. Just saying - perhaps he thought your question pertained to stuff created in the modern era. It would seem to make the publisher and the opinions of their legal team look very foolish (assuming they consulted with lawyers of their own) if they went ahead and filled their book with images that were still owned by CBS. Maybe they are as stupid as you suggest, then.

Also, if you suggested that there was "an original copyright owner" that may be misleading, since I think the publisher is claiming the pics were never originally copyrighted since the studio didn't bother to individually register them as they claim was required at the time. So the studio forfeited any property rights. But hey, I'm absolutely NOT a lawyer, dude. I bow to your superior knowledge!
Maurice,

I think you would be much more credible if you used the word 'dude' more often.
Or "dudette", which is just as happening, gangstas.
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